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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Can we discuss things with mumsnet

124 replies

Aftereights91 · 23/10/2018 12:10

Mnhq some of your members would like to discuss things that we are not happy with. Can we please have an adult discussion without this thread being deleted?

OP posts:
LikeIcare · 23/10/2018 15:30

MNHQ have a difficult balancing act. But they also let troll threads rattle on for ages with numerous reports before eventually deleting. All the 'infamous' troll threads that people reference had people reporting usually from day 1 but the threads are allowed to go on and on.

Which winds up the posters who are in trouble for troll hunting with MNHQ or just encountered the ire of other posters getting pissed off that they're daring to question the OP.

And those people say 'just report if you think it's a troll' but people ARE reporting and being ignored and it's annoying for them when it then IS eventually deemed to be a troll or a PBP.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/10/2018 15:31

they seem to take troll-hunting far more seriously than trolling in terms of warnings and bans handed out

I'm not sure about this ... isn't it that that they want suspicions referred to them rather than put on the threads? Anyway there's no point ; in fairness HQ can't watch every post and won't even know posters have doubts unless they're told about them

And at least that would avoid someone with a genuine problem being effectively told they're lying - which can't be much fun

ThirdChildFourthPile · 23/10/2018 15:33

Oh I know that the report and hide option is the best.

But I really want to point out the the poor bastards being sucked into the thread.
Some people get really invested in it, and I just want to shake them and tell them to stop. It makes them look daft.
And worse still it can fuck with their emotions.

Some people relay their own genuine realities of sick babies in hospital in support of some sick bastard who's got nothing better to do than make up sick babies or whatever it is they fancy doing that day.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/10/2018 15:35

Sorry, I see I've cross posted with several others there ... FWIW I do agree that, if reports are to be confined to HQ, it's best if prompt action's taken about them

reallybadidea · 23/10/2018 15:35

I also think that there is a big issue with letting a thread stand which alleges some kind of negligence. For example, parent of bloaty head child has been trying to tell their doctors that the child has bloaty head and the doctors have ignored them and not treated the bloaty head until it's nearly too late.

This gives bloaty head doctors in general a bad name and may cause anxiety for parents of other bloaty head children that they won't get proper treatment.

I personally think that if you've been previously banned then you should have any and all further threads deleted. As others have said, Mumsnet is not a charity.

ThirdChildFourthPile · 23/10/2018 15:35

Could we not be allowed just one emoji which indicates troll suspicion and activity without actually saying the words "you're a troll, off you fuck."

Like we use the biscuit for those who post eejit stuff.

We could just have the 🤔 emoji to indicate BS so at least the people replying can proceed with caution.

I know it won't catch on. But it would be a compromise at least.

53rdWay · 23/10/2018 15:43

isn't it that that they want suspicions referred to them rather than put on the threads?

Yes, and they reasonably enough don’t want vulnerable posters to get piled on if someone decides they’re lying. But while both trolling and troll-hunting are against the rules, the second one gets stomped on far quicker than the first and given less benefit of the doubt. Have you ever seen “despite various reports we have no reason to believe PosterName is trollhunting, so please stay quiet if you can’t be supportive”? No, but you see that with potential trolls all the time.

Maybe a better analogy:

Imagine there’s a village with a new speed limit. The police say that speeding is against the rules, can’t go over 20mph. But they don’t have the resources to go out and do speed traps, or put speed cameras in, and most reports of speeding from the public get a response of “well we can’t 100% prove it so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt.” Some people have reported being told off for wasting police time when they reported it.

At the same time, accusing people of speeding is also against the rules. The police are very proactive about this, will hand out penalties to anyone saying “I saw you doing 55 down the high street this morning!”, will also hand out cautions to anyone even hinting at someone else’s speed strongly enough. People talking about speeders and speeding in the village will be instructed to stop that conversation right now. People who’ve set up a Speeding Action Group anywhere else will be forbidden from discussing it. Reason: speeding is up to the police to enforce, not the villagers.

This is not a village that’s going to discourage speeding.

TooTrueToBeGood · 23/10/2018 15:44

I don't really care if I post on a thread that turns out to be trolling. The way I see it, even if the OP isn't genuine, my and other posters' comments/observations/advice might be useful to someone else reading. I'd prefer to see threads locked sometimes instead of deleting but maybe the platform doesn't have that feature. At the end of the day though, it's just a forum for burning some spare time on. My life isn't impacted by what the MN mods do or don't do.

reallybadidea · 23/10/2018 15:44

We've already got the Hmm and you're not supposed to use it to indicate scepticism as to a thread's veracity. There aren't many other uses for it IMO so it doesn't really seem worth keeping if you ask me.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 23/10/2018 15:47

But I really want to point out the the poor bastards being sucked into the thread
Some people get really invested in it, and I just want to shake them and tell them to stop. It makes them look daft

I get it. I feel the same too. It's hard not to write FFS WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES but most of them would ignore it anyway and we'd still get banned Grin

The type of posters that get sucked in are doing it for themselves imo. It makes them feel like they belong, that they're important and there's definitely an in house competition between posters to see who can the most supportive.

So no amount of prodding or suggestion that the thread might not be what it seems will stop them because it's not about the OP in a "desperate situation" it's about them.

reallybadidea · 23/10/2018 15:47

The way I see it, even if the OP isn't genuine, my and other posters' comments/observations/advice might be useful to someone else reading.

The thread that we're absolutely not discussing was full of really poor advice IMO, especially at the beginning. I think the thread itself was potentially quite harmful in that it could cause unnecessary anxiety.

TooTrueToBeGood · 23/10/2018 15:53

The thread that we're absolutely not discussing was full of really poor advice IMO, especially at the beginning.

That's a seperate issue that could apply to any thread, legitimate or trolling. I don't see the solution other than for knowledgeable people to challenge bad advice and for posters to appreciate that everyone on here is just a random anonymous stranger who's qualifications and credentials simply cannot be verified.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/10/2018 15:55

Very good analogy there, 53rdWay - definitely food for thought

HenryInTheTunnel · 23/10/2018 16:04

There is a new game out called Two Point Hospital which has many throwback references to Theme Hospital, including Bloaty Head in case anyone is interested.

IamEarthymama · 23/10/2018 16:04

MintRolls Eeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo!
Why hasn't the little quintuplet got a name?

Teeny-tiny, Weeny-Whiney, or Bimby-Bo,?

What do you think?

peachgreen · 23/10/2018 16:09

Totally agree with @53rdWay. I find it so frustrating to see poster after poster being sucked in by, and in some cases genuinely upset by, a poster who is at best fudging details in a misleading way, but most likely a deliberate troll. There's been loads of threads like it recently and it's so frustrating to have to sit on your hands because apparently troll-hunting is worse than trolling.

crispysausagerolls · 23/10/2018 16:17

OMG is this thread in response to my TAAT which was deleted? 😎

I think it’s madness that TAATs get deleted, and I fully agree with what everyone says about trolls etc

crispysausagerolls · 23/10/2018 16:21

I think the criteria to be accused of “troll hunting” is too vague - and I do think if someone thinks something is bullshit they ought to be allowed to express that without having their comments deleted.

HebeMumsnet · 23/10/2018 16:23

Hi there AfterEights,

Thanks for the questions. We do generally ask folk to put any questions about policy etc over in Site Stuff, so do feel free to start a thread over there.

Before you do though you might want to have a look at our post on this [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3402683-does-a-previously-banned-poster-get-banned-forever?msgid=82027890#82027890 thread] in Site Stuff, where we might have answered a few of your questions already. If there's anything not covered though, do just start another thread there and we'll take a look as soon as we get a chance.

Thanks!

Aftereights91 · 23/10/2018 16:25

@crispysausagerolls no it's definitely not otherwise it would be deleted as a taataat. This is just a generic discussion prompted by me not getting a response earlier Wink

OP posts:
WaitroseCoffeeCostaCup · 23/10/2018 16:35

Can someone tell me what an advanced search is?

SoupDragon · 23/10/2018 16:43

But while both trolling and troll-hunting are against the rules, the second one gets stomped on far quicker than the first and given less benefit of the doubt. Have you ever seen “despite various reports we have no reason to believe PosterName is trollhunting, so please stay quiet if you can’t be supportive”? No, but you see that with potential trolls all the time.

But troll hunting is bloody obvious, trolls are not so easy to prove. Easy to suspect, yes, but prove, no.

53rdWay · 23/10/2018 16:45

nah, I’ve definirely seen people get deleted for “interesting first post there OP!” type of comments as well as the “this is a lie you lying liar” types.

Fine if the bar is “you’re not allowed to troll-hunt or come across as if you’re troll-hunting,” but that should surely be extended to trolling as well.

SoupDragon · 23/10/2018 16:52

"Interesting first post" absolutely is troll hunting though. There's no other reason to post it whatsoever.

SummerGems · 23/10/2018 16:55

I don’t think that length of time makes a difference as to whether someone trolls or not,in fact it gives them more credibility meaning that a longstanding poster who trolls under a different name but on the same account is far more likely to be believed if they write “namechanged,” and when mn hq check they’re tied to a longstanding name.

But one thing which absolutely would make a difference IMO is the ability to namechange without limit. There is absolutely no reason why posters should need unlimited namechanges, no other forums allow it,and although other forums do attract trolls I would say that MN is by far the worst.

Also, taats being deleted just causes more taats to appear.If the discussion could just be had on a thread at the time the troll is shown to be a (suspected) troll, then the thread would probably run to its limit and be virtual chip paper by tomorrow. As it is I’ve already seen three taats this morning on the same subject.

Truth is that posters are banned for all manner of reasons including troll hunting,so pbp doesn’t automatically equal was previously a troll,and given this is an internet forum where posters all post under usernames it is literally not possible to know if a poster is a troll or not, but there are IMO certain things which should set alarm bells ringing. I.e.poster posting from the ambulance while on their way to hospital having never posted under that name before. Poster posting in the heat of the drama i.e. “I’m hiding in the toilet and can hear dh trying to smash down the door with a hammer, he’ll be in in a minute, OMG he’s got the axe with him, am sooooooo scared.” Or “I’m lying on the floor in a pool of blood,so scared I’m going to lose my baby,”with pictures once baby arrives into scbu and posts of how it’s touch and go. Or posts where the mother/sister/husband comes on to update the thread. I can just imagine my mum if I asked her to update mn on my behalf. Grin in fact when I was seriously ill in ICU a few years ago she pre-emptively warned dp not to post about it on facebook, which he didn’t but still....

But with that in mind, I do think that the over supporters looking to be the most supportive ever are partly responsible for the trolling problem which exists on MN. If people just took a step back and thought that there’s no way certain threads can be real,and didn’t constantly “check in”/ask for updates/talk about how they’ve been up all night crying thinking about the OP and to make sure she knows they’re here to talk, the trolls would be less encouraged to troll.

As for posters talking about it being mn’s site to do with as they want, absolutely it is. But reality is that what appears on a site is what gives it its reputation. Do MN really want that reputation to be that most of what’s posted on there is bollocks but they let it stand anyway?

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