To ask how to get DP/DH to share mental load?

[negunslean]

DH works long hours and I work part time (in our own business) we have 2 teenage DS. I am sick of being the only thinker/planner in our marriage. If it comes to a row about this he will often comment that he doesn’t sit on his arse all day, inferring that I have more time to sort this stuff out. And I agree to some respect. But not 24/7.
I feel totally responsible for all other stuff - family birthdays, children’s plans, cooking, booking holidays, making decisions about just about everything
How do I get him to share the mental load without detriment to our family life? If I don’t do things then other people suffer (relatives whose birthdays are forgotten, family eating constant takeaway or junk, bills not paid etc etc). AIBU to be sick of him thinking that as he works more hours and does do occasional ‘housework’ ( dishwasher etc)then this excuses him from everything else.

I have never sent a card on behalf of my dp.this is true,why would I?
If dp friends or family have a noteworthy event or birthday he’ll get a card
It’s not up to me to ensure it’s been done or to undertake as a task
nor does he remind me to send cards to my friends/family

Xmas we get box of charity cards and stamps,and we both sign ready to send

I think mental load exists. But it's not the same as physical chores (like cleaning, shopping, ironing).

For me it's:

• medical appointments (knowing they're needed, finding someone (in France so different system), booking appointment at a convenient time. DS1 has had at least 20 appointments since January. DS2 about 6

• making sure you have everything you need (food, right-sized clothes & shoes, cleaning supplies, school supplies, books, toys, presents, cards, stationery etc.)

• booking holidays (choosing when and where to go)

• organising childcare (after school pick up and holiday care)

• organising family visits (at theirs and ours)

• birthday parties (what to do, when, who to invite etc.)

• presents (I have to tell both sets of GPs and uncles and aunts what to buy for my DC and what I want too. As well as thinking of something from DH and me)

We recently moved flats so lots more thinking to do around that.

@Hont1986
Was that for me? If so, yes, that was an example of my mental load at 11.07pm last night, at11.08pm it was another half a dozen things.

This thread has made me realise a positive with a large mental load to juggle - it means you're fortunate enough to have lots of stuff to do, and friends to do it with.

It seems like a lot of your 'mental load' could be relieved by buying a notepad and pen.

It may be true for your husband that at 17:00 he’s no longer thinking about work, but I don’t think that’s true for everyone. I dislike this view that WOH mental load cuts off at 17:00 whilst home things continue.

Last night, I was thinking about my loo rolls and my daughter’s activities, yes.

I was also thinking: (these are genuine)

• boss is back tomorrow, will he want a catch up?
• aaaargh, I have to chase expenses department AGAIN tomorrow for that receipt copy
• shall I just book my flight to Germany, or check what flight colleague is taking?
• oh I still need to book a train tomorrow for Thursday’s trip
• oh no, appraisal time soon, what shall I say?
• and the best one, my every day low level unease that Brexit could mean no job (I work in member states a lot, if I need a work permit it could have a big issue)

It shouldn’t be a race to the bottom, I don’t know if I have it harder than OP. But I do think it’s naïve and unfair to assume that her husband gets to mentally clock off at 17:00

Is it the mental load specifically that is a problem or the total amount of work overall?

It might be easier to convince him to do a greater share than currently of housework overall than it would be for him to do more of the mental load specifically.

My DW and I tend to do the bits of the housework that we individually find easier/more urgent and hope this balances out overall, rather than struggling to share each component equitably.

Good points @Ellisandra.
I have a friend who works full time, and also does the full mental load, no idea how she does it, hats off to her.

Mental load is just another rod for women to beat men with, as if there weren't already enough

Ahhh yes that long history women have of oppressing and beating down those poor poor men....

Give over, seriously, it’s offensive.

I do think it’s unwise to use holiday planning as an example.
Whilst it’s true that having to plan / decide everything is fucking annoying, that particular example is a bit close to too tight diamond shoes

*Starting brownies = filling in an online form (possibly talking to a few other parents first to find out which packs are good/have spaces)

Swimming = ringing up every week, setting up a reminder to do so again next week

Yes, that involved some organising.
To call it a huge mental load is insulting to people how actually do have lots of things to juggle.*

Wow, I'm not sure posted anything that deserved snark. And, with respect, I didn't call it a 'huge mental load'.

I picked two tasks which had a lot of admin/organising separate to the physical ferrying-around part. The ferrying-round part has been a doddle compared to arranging them.

Swimming was particularly bad. I won't give you a run-down of the amount of time I spent getting the lessons organised because it was utterly ridiculous, it shouldn't have taken half as long as it did, and you wouldn't believe me anyway. (If I'd just called up once a week, my kid still wouldn't be in a lesson.)

I never said these two jobs were a huge mental load. All I said was that the mental load / admin part of them was much bigger than the 'doing' part. And to suggest it's an insignificant task is unfair.

This drives me nuts and I'm yet to meet one couple where the mental load is equally shared.

When I went back to work 4 days a week after maternity leave with DS1, I was clear things were going to be split. We do an online food shop once a week, which we alternate. Whoever does the food shop does the meal planning for us and DS for that week. A lot of things still fall to me though - booking DS doctor appointments, ordering prescriptions etc. Even all the stuff DH does around the house - he works hard to make our house lovely - I'm often reminding him to do it. Drives me nuts. I'm pregnant with DS2 and I've told him when he's born, we will take one child each. DH can be responsible for DS1's doctor appointments, school bag, nursery fees etc, and I will do the same for DS2. Divide and conquer, it's the only way it's fair, otherwise I'll end up having to remember it all. I'm sure there'll come a time when DS1 is sent to school with the wrong stuff, but if that's what it takes for DH to learn, so be it.

It's a bit late for you with the kids, but how much organising do teens need? If it's still a lot, I suggest taking the same approach, assign one child per parent. If one is sent to school without PE kit (surely teens should be able to take responsibility for that kind of thing) then it's dad's fault anyway, let them get mad at him. Take it in turns to food shop and meal plan. If that means take aways the week your husband is responsible, so be it. It won't last forever, he will get sick of takeaways every night and hopefully start pulling his finger out.

Family birthdays, I would ditch his family and only send cards/presents to yours. You've set a precedent here if you've always done it (I have never once gotten involved in organising cards and presents for in laws) so be clear with your husband that you'll no longer be doing it.

Divide the chores up clearly too. Assign him tasks eg hoovering, dishwasher unloading and make those solely his responsibility. If he doesn't do it, it doesn't get done. He'll soon notice when there are no clean dishes and the floors are disgusting. I do pretty much all the laundry, DH does all the hoovering. It works as it means it soon becomes obvious who's slacking when something's not done.

I've learned that clear boundaries between "jobs" is the only way for it to be fair, and you have to then just relinquish control and let the other get on with it.

And, with respect, I didn't call it a 'huge mental load'.

With respect, you did (in your post of 11.26)

Oh, I do see where you're referencing - I hadn't intended it to mean that these tasks in themselves constitute a huge mental load, but I agree reads that way.

I meant it as a throw-away phrase to say that the mental-load component was a much larger chore than the physical component. But you're right that I did say it, and I'm sorry for not checking before I replied.

You can't really complain now after all these years. it's important to start this before kids are born, through discussion.
You don't take it all on and then complain about it.
Working for an employer or self employed even if long hours doesn't exclude you from family life.
a sahp/ pt, works just as hard as a ft employed person.
Why would someone want to opt out of part of family life. I've never been able to understand why some men do this and why some women allow it.

it's important to start this before kids are born, through discussion.

I don't think anyone appreciates until they actually have children what a large mental load having kids generates.

And I genuinely think that men's minds don't process these things the same way as women's, which is why women end up doing most of it.

And it's not just things like organising activities and making sure homework gets done. And doesn't get easier when they get older.

e.g. reminding DS at Uni to get a flu vaccination. Yes, some people will say he's an adult & should do that himself or deal with the consequences. But when the consequences could be a severe risk to his health, I'm the one who's going to keep reminding him until he gets it done. DH might do it once, but would quickly forget.

Of course you can complain after many years!
Why not?!!

I actually (without more detail from the OP) don’t think she definitely has anything to complain about.

BUT... If the balance is unfair, of course she should complain!

What kind of 50s “made your bed so lie in it” nonsense is it to say otherwise?!

How is it 1950's to have the foresight to discuss these things prior to your children being born? Surely, expecting a woman to do the emotional burden without question is 1950's and what the OP decided to do.
Of course she can complain about what she likes, but hardly going to have any effect after all this time.

If I had to remind a grown up to have a flu jab, I'd feel we'd both failed as parents, tbh.

I genuinely think that men's minds don't process these things the same way as women's, which is why women end up doing most of it.

Face. Palm.

Read this yourself, all of it, and see why resonates.

I think it’s part five where he talks about this exact thing, how he was congratulating himself on letting his wife do all the arrangements for everything while she was slowing drowning.

I had to bring this up with my husband. I didn’t ask him to read it, I just said I didn’t want to captain this ship on my own anymore. That it was exhausting me having to do all the thinking, make all the decisions, that I felt like he delegated all that to me - even choosing dinner - because then he had a clear plan to follow. For complete transparency he is a SAHD and I work full time in what can be a quite stressful job. I did cry. I was very upset. Things have improved a lot though.

It might be easy for some people to pick up an extra birthday card with their weekly shop but I do my shopping online and rarely go to any shops in person because I hate shopping. I don't work in a town and I don't pass a post box regularly. I work when the children are at school and there's no leeway in my hours (I don't take a lunch break). DH actually works in a town and takes a lunch break so although on paper I have more 'spare' time it's way more convenient for him to organise his family's cards and gifts. There are certain things I'm happy to do because I work fewer hours (e.g. most school related admin) and other things that don't work for me.

“it's important to start this before kids are born, through discussion.”
I didn’t and have taken on the mental load. I’m happy with that. DH earns literally 10x what I do, I in turn work 3 days a week doing I job I’m completely passionate about.
I read a while ago on here about a woman who worked full time and said she’d feel guilty if she wasn’t contributing as much as she could financially. I’d never thought of it that way and asked DH if he felt over burdened financially, the way I do occasionally emotionally. He said absolutely not. He also doesn’t expect or get 😂 perfection. So I don’t always remember his families birthdays but they know I will always go the extra mile when needed.
The decision was slightly made for us as he is regularly away several nights a week, so we could never plan on him doing school runs etc.
I would resent him very much if he wasn’t emotionally supportive to me and the dc- he may not be physically present always or do much practically in the house, but his emotional focus is us.

Without knowing the OPs hours and her DHs it’s very hard to say who is being reasonable. However, mental load/life admin is definitely a ‘thing’. DH and I both work full time and he does take some tasks - for example one car is mine, one is his, we both deal with tax, insurance, MOT and servicing for our own. He deals with house insurance and we did all the life etc insurance together. He does Christmas and birthday presents for his family (sometimes with a bit of prompting from his sister!). However, it’s the day to day stuff... I deal with all the washing, he’ll take it out of the dryer and fold it if I ask and can put a wash on if I’m away from home but will hang it all on the airer where it’s crowded and stays damps and starts to smell because he doesn’t know what can go in the dryer. When I’m home however he would never think that the washing basket was full and he should put a load on or the toddler was nearly out of clean trousers or payjamas. It’s the same with food shopping and meals, he’ll shop without me but either I meal plan and make a list or he buys random things that don’t actually make a meal. He then doesn’t think about what dinner is going to be and if pushed to do it will get a beige meal out of the freezer or scour the fridge for leftovers and make some weird combined conconction. It doesn’t occur to him to empty bins, put the bins out the night before collection, tidy the house the day before the cleaner comes, the the washing up that’s left after he’s loaded the dishwasher. He will do all these things if asked but he doesn’t think of them so then I’m nagging if I ask him to do them. Chores wise he does all the heavy garden stuff and DIY stuff but again, he’ll start Saturday morning by asking ‘what’s in the list for this weekend’ or ‘what are we doing today’.
Recent example we went swimming on Saturday with DS, I am very pregnant suffering with ICP so not getting much sleep. I threw the towels and swimming stuff in the wash and and went straight to bed when DS did. DH was taking DS to his swimming lesson at 9.30 the next morning. Did it occur to him to get the wet stuff out of the machine and hang it up to dry, of course not. It was me laying awake itching at 5am who thought ‘I bet he hasn’t done that’ who then waddled out to the washing machine in the garage and retrieved wet swimming costumes and put them over the radiator so DS didn’t have to get into a cold wet wetsuit for swimming the next morning. The mental load is just having all this stuff in your head all the time.

Romanyroots I just knew when I posted about reminding DS to have flu jab someone would neg me on this. Do you have kids who've just started at Uni? Who have 1001 things to think about far more exciting (and challenging) than booking a flu jab? Who also struggle to remember to renew their asthma inhaler prescriptions too? I'm not embarrassed to admit that I remind DS about this. The consequences could be fatal if he doesn't have one. He's never actually had flu, and doesn't know how grim it is. He'll remember to do it eventually, but he's only just moved out of the family home. But according to you, DH and I have both failed at being parents. Well, lucky we've got someone perfect like you to learn from on Mumsnet, eh?

DrWhy
Have you been in touch with ICP Support? It's a charity that provides advice and support to pregnant women with the condition.
www.icpsupport.org/