AIBU to consider having another child in these circumstances?

[PoorMe123]

I hope no one minds; I posted in chat but I've had a fairly small response and this is obviously a big decision so looking for lots of feedback.

I'm a SAHM. DH & I make ends meet and have 2 DC. We've had a particularly expensive couple of years which has left us with some small debts which we are managing and will have cleared soon. We don't have any savings and are 30. Once our DC are in school I will work again and we'll have more spare cash to get savings together. We don't own our house.

If we're going to have another DC, now is the time. If we wait & I get back into work, then it's just more time off down the line & paying for childcare etc. If we have one now, we will have them all in school by the time I'm 35 so still plenty of time for me to have a good career.

Just to make sure I'm giving you all the information, DH will get 50k around the time he turns 40 (don't want to elaborate and out myself) so we will have some money coming our way in the next 10 years. Also we'd be buying in either Scotland or the North of England where home ownership isn't so expensive.

Would we be foolish to have another child in these circumstances? DH & I would both love another child and a sibling for our existing DC.

Food for thought, OP: what would happen in you were to go ahead for a third baby, and ended up having twins, or the child has a disability which meant you had to provide 24hr care, therefore unable to return to work?

I hate to be that poster but 2 children is really enough, a 3rd adds so much pressure to the environment and to you financially.

Your mind is made up and you are not prepared to be objective.

In your shoes I wouldn't op. When we got married we had a house, very high equity, savings and two careers. We both wanted 4 dc and started late, 34. 5 pgs, 3 into 3rd trimester, two into 2nd, and two dc later the dream of more disappeared. My one lufe regret is not having the courage to risk another loss. BUT ds1 was poorly as a baby and I ended up having 7 years at home (they were glorious). I went back to work at 43 and have a successful 2nd career. With two dc it took an au-pair and much juggling as dc at different schools. If we had had more dc that 2nd career would not have happened.

This year we have two at uni; their combined rent and ex's are about £16,000 net income. Add a third: one 1st yr, one 3rd, one doing a masters (or meds) and that would be £24k. You have no assets at present. How could that be a runner?

If you are going back to work at 35 surely most of your income will be eaten up by childcare costs?

You say that will give you enough to get on the property ladder but you have no savings. Where will the deposit come from? Even in a cheaper area you’ll need a pretty hefty deposit for a 3/4 bedroom house. Brexit may push interest rates up too.

Personally I would delay for now and focus on saving for a deposit. You could always reconsider having a third once you are homeowners and a little more financially secure. I wouldn’t want to risk having a third if I was renting with debts, no savings and no pension and only one income.

Why have you posted this honestly - if your heart says 100% it seems you have made the decision anyway.

Is it that your head knows that the sensible practical choice is to focus on the two you have. There is a reason that a lot of people have 2 its because beyond that it becomes practically more difficult

Sorry if I'm being cheeky OP, but how are you planning on getting on the property ladder in the next few years (before the £50k) if you've no savings?

From your posts, it sounds like you and DH have already made up your mind to have another DC, anyway, so I'm not sure why you are asking.

Many posters on MN think that you can't afford a family unless you earn 6 figures. The reality is that many families survive and thrive on much less than £50,000. If you want to have another DC, you will just have to cut your cloth accordingly.

The only thing I would say is that you seem to be relying on your DH to be able to earn £50,000 within 10 years and then everything will be wonderful. Whilst it's great that your OH has the potential to earn that much, it is only potential and not guaranteed. There are lots of wise posters on here whose lives have turned out differently to expected due to illness, bereavement, divorce, redundancy etc. Whilst you can't live your life worrying about what may or may not happen, you equally can't rely on your DH being able to earn £50,000.

If you want to have a third child, you should go for it, but equally, think about the implications - eg having a third child may mean you have to put off going back to work for longer which may delay you being able to get on the housing ladder and this may affect the type of property you can afford. If you would be happy, then go for it.

Well, since you've asked, I don't think you can afford it, and I think you should prioritise your existing children. However, it seems that you have made up your mind anyway, so all I can say is good luck with it.

you equally can't rely on your DH being able to earn £50,000

Isn’t the £50K a one off inheritable/trust fund or something rather than his new salary? That’s what I read it as, apologies if wrong end of the stick.

Inheritance!

You've got debt and no savings, that's not great. Also - do you have a qualification that makes it easy to have the career you mention after 35? There are a ton of threads on here with well qualified SAHMs finding it difficult to re-enter the workforce.

You're still young, I'd say to wait a bit longer and see how things go. Or alternatively could you look at working a bit now, clear debts and build up a job history, then get pregnant again - you'll have a more stable base, and will get paid maternity leave.

@EmpressJewel I took the OP to mean that they are getting a windfall of £50k rather than him earning £50k a year.

Either way I don't think I would rely on it.

OP, I would do it if I were you. I'm astonished by how many people on here put a price on children. The big leap, really, is going from none to one. After that, it's hand-me-downs, re-using stuff etc, etc. I don't know anyone who was precious about second and subsequent children having to have the newest/latest/shiniest things. Two children of the same sex can share a bedroom. Three children doesn't involve buying a bigger car. You're young enough to have a third and still go back to work. You're obviously not a feckless type. I'd just do it.

The fact is, you will find a way. I'm astonished by the PP who is wondering if DC are affordable on a joint salary of £95K...

I don’t think a third child will increase your immediate expenditure too much, assuming you use hand me downs and continue as a sahm. However, it will affect future costs such as paying for wraparound childcare if you need it, paying for 3 x extracurricular activities, family holidays. I think if you are a family that would be happier as a five going on a caravan holiday and budgeting carefully, then it will be fine. It sounds like you can get future employment, but agree you do need to think worst case scenarios and also think pensions (work out what your income will be age 60 and 70, single or married). It will also put more stress on you (sahm) and your partner (breadwinner). But I recognise that you really want this. Life will turn out ok either way.

Many posters on MN think that you can't afford a family unless you earn 6 figures. The reality is that many families survive and thrive on much less than £50,000. If you want to have another DC, you will just have to cut your cloth accordingly

^Exactly

The fact is, you will find a way. I'm astonished by the PP who is wondering if DC are affordable on a joint salary of £95K... confused

Mumsnet isn't it it as a collective group is also obsessed with owning property as well, like it's the ultimate goal in life. Very strange.

OP there is never a good time financially to have another sprog. I personally wouldnt because by third turned out disabled and will probably never leave home. You can't plan this shit. Might be worth taking out life insurance though.

I think that people are obsessed with owning property because if you are in London rental can easily be £1500 per month and a pension is unlikely to cover this.

I think that people are obsessed with owning property

^And rightly so. If people had a choice no one would choose to rent

Definitely no way. Your sums don't add up because you haven't factored in childcare costs, or the costs of raising three children. I agree with the post that it comes down to owning your own house or another child.

Personally I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life and old age in a rented house if there was a choice to avoid it. You have two children, be happy with your lot in life. What do you do when you feel you need a 4th child or 5th?? You could go on conceivably forever.

Why can't you be happy with 2 children?

Climate change is a very real threat and one of the biggest causes of that is overpopulation.

It doesn't seem to be a popular subject on here but people need to be having less children

I don't think that people think you need enormous salaries to have children. However OP and her DH are currently struggling to make ends meet with 2 small (cheap) children (they have no savings and have to incur debt for unexpected expenses). Having another small child now will not immediately increase their outgoings but without increasing incomings the next unexpected expense will throw them back into debt. However as others have said, children get more expensive as they get older, and potentially they may need a bigger house - they are going to struggle to cover any of this.

Then OP expects to walk into a job at age 35, after 8+ years out of the workforce (the odd ad-hoc day at her brother's firm, won't impress recruiters unless she is able to up her hours/experience there) which will enable the family to cover childcare for 3 children, plus save enough for a mortgage (and presumably furniture etc as well).

The majority of the "don't" posters are simply saying that OP's visions of the future are not financially likely. That having another child probably means the difference between being comfortable and watching every penny. Nothing wrong with either decision, but she should know that's the decision she's making!

I wasn't saying don't have the 3rd in my PPs just stating some things that I think you should take into consideration so that your vision of the future is accurate.

^And rightly so. If people had a choice no one would choose to rent

I choose to rent, home ownership from start to finish just looks like a ballache. No thankyou. Make the rental market fairer and regulated to an inch of its life would make life easier and more people would choose once they got over this obsession that you have to own property to have 'made it'

I think that people are obsessed with owning property because if you are in London rental can easily be £1500 per month and a pension is unlikely to cover this

I forgot, silly me. It's all about London

As you are basing your decision on costs, have you considered the cost implications if your potential third child turns out to be multiple children or has a life-changing degree of SEND? Would you still cope financially if you are not able to return to your career and/or have any typical 9-to-5 job?

We had a similar dilemma a few years ago and decided to go for it, although then made some drastic changes (moved country) which made things financially much easier in the short term but mean I can't work for now, dc3 is now 1 -and we're discussing a fourth-

I wouldn't let short term tight finances stand in the way (given what you say about your DP's job security) as you clearly really want this, the more important questions I'd be asking myself are:

What is your debt level, how long will it take to clear it and would having a 3rd delay that? If it would cause a delay or increase debt I would wait until it is cleared.

It will mean another x years before you can build a career, expect any disposable income, time for yourselves etc. Doesn't sound like that bothers you and age is on your side re the career side of things (although don't underestimate how hard this may be and that it may take a while) but just make sure you've thought it through properly! (I charted out how old we would be through all the kids stages, starting school, exams, uni etc to help me with this). What could you do with those extra years? Is losing them worth it?

What will this mean for the age by which you could pay off a mortgage and for pensions?

Finally, not quite the same but I am one of 4, my mum didn't work until I was 13 (she was 40) and my dad had a very low paid job. Our housing was secure but all our clothes were second hand, holidays were camping, we didn't get to go on school trips, Christmas gifts were home made etc. I was mildly bothered by this now and again from age 10 or so but had a wonderful childhood which I remember with fondness and now feel these minor hardships had a positive impact on me in the long run. My parents couldn't buy a house until they were 50 but knew they would inherit a bit at some point to help pay it off, their pensions won't be amazing but adequate (and they have 4 children to help them if needed)

Basically if you feel you have enough love and energy for a third, you are realistic about the sacrifices and still want to go ahead I would only worry about short term finances to the extent they are enough to provide basic stability without getting in to lots of debt.