Was my son in the wrong.....

[Mroogieboogie]

8 year old son is a lot like me, very affectionate to the people he's close too, hates being touched by anyone else. There is a girl in his class who likes him, always trying to cuddle him and in his personal space, he's told me before he doesn't like playing with her as she always hugs and kisses him. Time goes on and this girls mother stops me to tell me that my DS kicked her DD, i said sorry, doesn't sound like him, I'll have a word etc, she said her DD was hugging him. Now my DS isn't perfect at all, but he's not a fighty type, he doesn't even get physical with his siblings, and also this girl is clearly not taking no for an answer, i don't think he should have kicked her at all, but he must have been pushed to his limits to do that. AIBU in thinking that I actually understand why my DS lost his shit with constantly saying no but still having his boundaries pushed. I can't help but feel that if my DS wouldn't leave her DD alone and she kicked out he'd still be in the wrong and her daughter would have just been protecting herself...

Yanbu. Can you speak to the girls mum and say you’ve had a word with your son and told him it’s not acceptable to kick and ask her to tell her daughter to stop hugging your son as it makes him feel very uncomfortable

I would also speak to the teacher and explain how your son feels

You are right, no should mean no whatever the sex of the child.

YANBU and YABU. I totally see how frustrating it must be for your DS to be constantly hugged or touched when he doesn't want to be but he shouldn't be kicking. At the same time, she shouldn't be hugging him especially if he has told her not to.

Have you spoken to the teacher to get her to stop. If so, tell your DS to let the teacher know when she's doing it, straight away.

He was certainly not in the wrong - I'd end up kicking someone who insisted on hugging and kissing me, too !

Could you speak to the mother about this again - maybe get both kids together and both mothers explain to both kids that 1) hugging and kissing against someone's will and 2) kicking people, are both unacceptable and that they should both keep away from those behaviours.

Maybe you could also ask their teacher to address this kind of thing, she/ he could give all the kids a talk about inappropriate touching ? Just to get the message across. I'd bet that your DS isn't the only one that this girl annoys.

I had something similar with my son, two of his class mates kept running up to him and being sill, making daft noises, saying daft words etc. Generally just harmless stuff, but it was all the time and it was really getting on his nerves. He tried just smiling and walking away, just avoiding them but they sought him out to have a laugh. He tried telling them to just stop and go be silly somewhere else, but they persisted with sharing their daftness with him until he stared getting simply angry with them.

I explained the situation to the teacher saying that they werent being mean or nasty, but werent hearing the fact that they were being very annoying and if they persisted I feared my son would really lose it.
She did a great job in mediating and it stopped quickly and they now all get on fine.

It was easily sorted out and the teacher totally understood both sets of kids sides of the story.

I would raise it with the teacher, something like this should be easily sorted out, its not like shes being nasty with him she just needs to tone it down.

I’m not sure that kind of thinking is really particularly helpful to your DS.

You need to take practical steps to make sure his boundaries are respected:

Go and see the teacher about the problem and get her to deal with personal space at their carpet time (or equivalent)

Go back to the mother (calmly) and explain the problem. Apologise for the kick and ask her to instruct her daughter to stop hugging him as it is distressing to him. Tell her you’ve raised the issue with school.

Role play with your DS how to avoid hugs (step back, hand out, firm “no, hugs”)

Work with your DS on his anger management. Kicking may be understandable in this situation but it’s not acceptable. He’s 8yo, old enough to know better and put strategies in place.

To return to your final point. Parenting isn’t just about teaching your children what is acceptable now, it’s about building foundation blocks for future behaviour.

I have a twin son and daughter. We have always been equally strict with them about the no hitting/no kicking/no pushing rules.

We have always been equally strict that “no” and “stop” must be instantly respected.

However we have also had additional conversations with them both about the difference between the sexes both in terms of physical strength and in terms of cultural reactions.

If my DS hit my DD at 5 yo he wouldn’t have hurt her any more than she could hurt him. However we explained to him that as he grew he would become considerably taller and stronger than his sister and that there would be no equality in any physical fight. As a result it was less acceptable for him to hit his sister or any girl because one day soon he could really, really hurt them. He’s 11yo now, he’d never lay a finger on her, he’s 6 inches taller and considerably stronger.

Similarly we told our DD that most boys are raised not to hit girls, told that it’s a shameful thing to do. And that most boys will not hit a girl, because she is a girl. We explained to her that hitting a boy who won’t/can’t hit you back (other than in extreme circumstances) is unacceptable.

Both children have been told that physical violence is forbidden other than if you can’t defend yourself in any other way (ie you are pinned, can’t run away and they are already hurting you)

It’s frustrating for your DS and the girl in question absolutely needs to be spoken to about boundaries and your DS doesn’t have to put up with it, and shouldn’t. However he is absolutely in the wrong for kicking. He needs to know that physical violence is absolutely not an acceptable solution. You can’t let him think that hitting and kicking is an ok way to express frustration. No matter how much frustration!

Your DS shouldn’t have kicked but the girl absolutely needs to stop touching him when he says no. I can understand why he kicked out, he must’ve been incredibly frustrated!

His boundaries need to be respected. As a reluctant hugger I know how he feels.

Yeah my title thing is probably a bit misleading (I didn't know what to write) as I do think it's wrong to kick. I just think she's probably more in the wrong for being so pushy.....

I teach my son no violence and all the things mentioned, which is probably why it hasn't been a problem before and isn't a problem with his siblings.

This girl is also bigger than him, and judging by the size of us next to her parents I do imagine it'll stay that way, although still don't find hurting women acceptable don't worry.

I'm just a bit wary of teaching my son that he can't stand up for himself as I would personally end up getting physical if someone would not leave me alone and wouldn't take no for an answer. Although I did actually tell him off for kicking her.

Will practice the hug dodging techniques, thank you for the suggestion. I'm pro at those so should be easy lol. I will also talk to the teacher about it. Won't be talking to the mother though as she's very precious with her DC and it won't be taken kindly.

It’s difficult as I agree that there are times when violence is actually the only option - if I was physically attacked you can bet your bottom dollar I’d fight back.

However that is an extreme situation and instinct would take over for him in that type of scenario.

Kicking because he’s frustrated is not the same thing.

go and speak to the school. they should have a no hands policy. no child should have their personal boundaries ignored.

Yanbu.

Do not talk to the mother though...go and talk to the teacher.

Have a word with the teacher about protecting your son's personal space. It's both. A lot of incidents have precursors. This is true for your boy kicking, but it also might well be true for another child who's labelled "naughty" and does it a lot. It doesn't make the action acceptable but it makes it understandable.

So do speak to the teacher, but also support any sanctions given to your son and bear it in mind next time he's on the receiving end.

I'd consider an 8-year-old who wouldn't stop hugging another child (who's said he doesn't like it) to be very lacking in social know-how. Surely that's not normal behaviour? I'd ask the mother to have a word with the daughter about other's boundaries.

Sexnotgender. Good point

Definitely not in the wrong. You need to talk to the school, to be honest it sounds like you should have already spoken to them. Talk to your son too. And if the mother speaks to you again I would say "I spoke to James and he did kick Molly, I have spoken to him about it. Now can you speak to Molly and explain to her that she is absolutely not to cuddle or hug him again, it's unwanted, he keeps telling her to stop and she won't. If she continues and he kicks her again then she shouldn't be surprised. I will teach him to stand up for himself the same as you wouldn't have a boy or man contstantly touching your daughter, you would teach her that no means no and I will be doing the same"

There are those that will tell you your son did wrong because he lashed out...but I bet she doesn’t close in on him for unwanted hugs and kisses again. Hopefully she has learned something about other people’s boundaries going forward as well.

I'm just a bit wary of teaching my son that he can't stand up for himself

It’s not about teaching him that he can’t stand up for himself, it’s about teaching him that there are many other ways to do that before you resort to a kick.

It doesnt seem fair to me that the victim (( your son)) is being punished for reacting.

Being repeatedly hugged and touched without my permission would boil my blood, id probably end up lashing out or pushing away if it didnt stop. Im just not tactile at all. The.feeling I get from being touched is horrible. More so when it's against my will.

Absolutely teaching your son that moving away etc is the.preferred response but this childs mother also needs to be teaching her to keep her damn hands to herself. If someone posted on here saying their ds was repeatedly touching and kissing a girl he'd be getting called allsorts by now.

They are 8, they will have been taught PANTS and know about saying and respecting no. This girl has no right to touch your son let alone kiss him. He shouldn't have kicked her, he needs to tell and adult each and every time she touches him and the staff need to deal with it.

Pictish, he said she has stopped now, but that's probably not taught my son the best lesson

Happy, yes I agree. I did tell him off and I will teach him other techniques.

So what did you say to the mum when she told you her daughter was hugging him?

Did you tell her that he had asked your daughter not to hug him?

On the whole I would say that kicking is wrong, but it could have been accidental as he was trying to get away.

Also, if someone is doing something to you that tou don't want & have already asked them not to do, at what point is a physical reaction to stop them "acceptable"?

To say that he's defending himself from a hug sounds an overreaction, but then again it is physical contact from someone else that he doesn't want.

You can’t let him think that hitting and kicking is an ok way to express frustration. No matter how much frustration!

Hmmmm, I think no-one would bat an eyelid if you reversed the genders here and said physical violence is completely acceptable if being physically restrained in a hug while someone is sexually harassing you.

If some guy came up and hugged my daughter and wouldn’t let her go there is no way I would tell her that hitting or kicking him is unacceptable and that she must learn to deal her frustration otherwise. Ridiculous. It would be more than acceptable for her to hit, kick and heck even bite him if necessary. But our sons are taught to suck it up and deal with any frustration it may cause.

Mind you I’m pretty sure my son would pull some pretty good evasive rugby moves if some woman was trying to hug him and he didn’t want it. I’d be impressed by any woman who could hug him if he didn’t want to be hugged. Maybe teach your son rugby ha ha.

Teach him to yell NO MEANS NO! at her, and really yell it, attract attention, keep saying "stop touching me i dont like it, NO MEANS NO" if a teacher ignores that then id be in the school raising hell... i dont like to be touched either

Unwanted physical contact can be just as damaging as a kick.
All children, regardless of gender, should be taught at an early age that you cannot hug and kiss people who do not want to be hugged and kissed.
No means no.
Botht the teacher and the other parent should be reinforcing this.

Meh...in the real world, outside of fluffy parenting idealism, when someone hits you first, you hit them back so they don’t do it again. If you put up with being hit, the hitter will keep on coming back. If you put him/her on their arse, they’ll find somewhere else to direct their shitty attentions.

I have always taught my kids that they never lash out first but if someone hits them they can retaliate. I don’t much care what mumsnet thinks of that. I grew up in a rough wee town full of fuckwits with no manners and I had to defend myself.

I don’t see overbearing physical overtures such as hugging or kissing as being much different if he has previously made it clear he doesn’t like it. It’s still disrespecting someone else to fulfill an agenda. I f they won’t fuck off when asked they will be physically deterred. It’s not complicated.