to think DS' school knows something the rest of us don't about Brexit?

[Satsumaeater]

This isn't a trip for his year group but they are organising a language trip to an EU country by air, leaving on, guess what, 29 March!

I think they come back on 3rd April or thereabouts.

I am a bit surprised to say the least. Do they have inside information that there will be a deal? They've also got a EU trip planned later in April but that was organised months before all this latest no-deal furore, and another one in July, but I'd probably expect things to have been sorted out (to an extent) by then, although they might have to get visas for the British passport holders at shortish notice.

Leaving on 29th seems like playing chicken to me; the kids (and teachers!) might not be able to get back.

mantlepiece
You do realse that A50 has been invoked (by Theresa May) and the clock is ticking down to zero.
It will get to Zero
and then the UK leaves the EU

Only if the UK Parliament votes to rescind that can the clock be stopped

So, if the EU decides to try and stop planes flying, we can stop the vast majority of air traffic between the EU and North America

Do you actually understand what the Open Skies agreement is?

It has nothing to do with the Eu 'deciding to stop planes flying'.

This is not a tit-for-tat issue; 'oh if they do this, we'll just do that'. It is just the legal position. It is SO fucking depressing that so many people fail to grasp this.

Be Careful KenDodd It's how Europe stumbled into WW1

I have already been told on another thread that I am being ridiculous when I made similar comments.

I will repeat - no one wanted war but they blundered into it, and then it couldn't be stopped. It was all going to be over by Christmas, remember?

I could so easily see Theresa May blundering into no deal.

Oh our school is proposing a trip for the end of the school year. Asking for pupils to have a valid EHIC card.....

Wondering if this will still be valid in June

So, if the EU decides to try and stop planes flying, we can stop the vast majority of air traffic between the EU and North America

Nobody is going to 'stop planes flying.' If the UK leaves with No Deal, then all UK-registered planes and pilots lose their certifications and can no longer legally fly. It is a legal consequence of Brexit - and nobody is going to insure a non-certified plane.

Despite the name, Open Skies is NOT about air space and Air Traffic Control, which comes under other international treaties that are not impacted by Brexit. Flights from the EU to the USA will still be able to fly over British air space, directed by UK ATC.

Open Skies deals with standards for airlines, aircrew, airports and ground facilities, and governs the commercial agreements regarding which airlines can fly to which airports. The skies in the EU are now 'Open' as opposed to the previous arrangements under which only a limited number of airlines could fly between countries. For example, most European routes were previously restricted to just the national carriers like British Airways. Now, independent airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair can operate pretty much wherever they like in Europe, as long as their planes and pilots are certified. It is this certification that ceases on 29th March (for UK-registered planes) - along with the certifications for UK airports.

Easyjet has re-registered most of its fleet from UK registration to Austrian registration to avoid this problem in Europe. Ryanair's fleet is registered in Ireland. Watch out for BA planes being re-registered as Spanish, as BA is Spanish-owned. None of which solves the problem of British airports losing their certifications, so planes cannot land or take off - hence Heathrow setting aside £millions in case of short-term disruption.

Flights from the EU to the USA will still be able to fly over British air space, directed by UK ATC.

Air traffic control over the Shanwick block is currently managed by NATS, with Ireland providing the communications. This is delegated to the UK by the ICAO though, and not the EU, but the Shanwick block was created by the EU under it’s FABs programme.

Licences and medicals for UK air traffic controllers will be affected according to the EU no deal prep notices, although the EU looks to be allowing existing approved UK medical test centres to apply to have Third Country approvals.

I don't actually know what will happen anymore, I voted remain. I don't want this pile of mess which is happening.

But honestly tthoughif people voted because they genuinely thought Britain would be better fair enough but most people ive heard in real life who voted for this shitfest did so based on either all that money the NHS is never going to get or stopping them 'immigrants who steal our council houses and jobs ' (most of the ones they have issues with don't come from the EU anyway ) and they need shipping on on Boris's fecking big red lying bus.

Its called SWAN Wick
not Shanwick

It’s not that the country will hold them hostage. It’s that the airlines literally will not have the legal right to fly that route.

I understood the original concern was that the kids won't be able to return. If the airlines are unable to fly the route, then following the line of argument, the children won't be able to fly the route. Therefore, what is the issue and where will they not be able to return from if they aren't able to fly the route in the first place?

If hypothetically no agreement is reached on this (which I personally am highly sceptical about), then I am sure travel insurance would simply cover the costs of the trip as a circumstance beyond traveller's control.

Seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

If the airlines are unable to fly the route, then following the line of argument, the children won't be able to fly the route. Therefore, what is the issue and where will they not be able to return from if they aren't able to fly the route in the first place

The kids will be able to fly out on 29th, as as we are still in the EU until the end of that day. The concern is that they won't be able to get back because flights will cease at midnight on 29th.

Or of course a last minute cancellation of the trip which costs parents a lot of money (and the school in supply costs as the trip is in term-time).

Insurance does not cover this sort of situation.

They won't bother flying on the 29th if there is the remote possibility they can't get back so take that excuse out of it

They won't bother flying on the 29th if there is the remote possibility they can't get back so take that excuse out of it

Completely agree.

The kids will be able to fly out on 29th, as as we are still in the EU until the end of that day. The concern is that they won't be able to get back because flights will cease at midnight on 29th.

Surely the parents and the school would know whether any issues are likely to arise long before the morning of the 29th? And I am inclined to think that any trip cancellations due to inadequate Brexit arrangements by the government will be seen as circumstances beyond traveller's reasonable control.

On the other hand, nobody knows what insurance will or won't cover in such a situation because nobody has yet been in a "unable to travel home due to the consequences of Brexit" situation. So instead of a what seems like a massive speculation on a potentially non-existent issue, I'd personally have a chat with the school about their plans. And if it really is such a huge concern, then saying "no" to the trip is always an option too.

There is so much bollocks on this thread about aviation and ATC.I wish I could quote my source, but I can't.There is absolutely no expectation from NATS or Heathrow (why just heathrow??) that there will be any hiatus in air travel
Apart from that, in whose interests would it possible be to interrupt air traffic?
It wouldn't just cause chaos in the Uk or EU.It would be a global disaster

In the very unlikely scenario that we get to the 28th March and no arrangements have been made and flights will not be able to go from the EU to the UK after the 29th, do you really still think that the school trip will go ahead?

Worst case scenario, the trip money will be lost, not your kids stuck in europe.

jasjas1973

your link says
For two years, the government has been implementing a significant programme of work to ensure the UK will be ready from day 1 in all scenarios, including a potential ‘no deal’ outcome in March 2019.

Licences and medicals for UK air traffic controllers will be affected according to the EU no deal prep notices, although the EU looks to be allowing existing approved UK medical test centres to apply to have Third Country approvals.

I don't understand that
NATS cover all air traffic passing through UK airspace regardless of nationality??

Its called SWAN Wick not Shanwick

No, you're thinking of something different.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanwick_Oceanic_Control

My apologies.
THe Air traffic controllers all work at Swanwick.
I am sitting in one of their old chairs (and very comfortable it is too)

Id urge any parent thinking of sending their child on a school trip over this period to check the conditions of the school's health insurance policy. DS1 is just back from France and having a current EHIC was part of the conditions of the health insurance package.

His reminds me of the 31 jan 1999.

I loathe Brexit too but I think this is the wrong place to put your worries.

Can you list the many similarities thegrinningfox?

I think it really shows how gullible and easily manipulated the general public are if they believer that all planes will be grounded on Brexit.

Ds is going to Spain on 5th April. The trip was planned last October.

@tiredgirly - I think it's pretty gullible to assume there can't possibly be problems.