David Sedaris signing WHORE in MN poster's book

[TeachesOfPeaches]

He talks about this incident in the new Adam Buxton podcast episode 79.

Provides a bit more context as to why he does this and the other outrageous things he has written/drawn at book signings.

I now think the OP was being unreasonable as this seems to be part and parcel of being a fan of his.

Which is worse than being called a groupie.

Says you. Where is the universal rule here? ‘Groupie’ to me has connotations of slavish, desperate, unwilling to think for yourself, extreme etc. ‘Whore’ when coming from David Sedaris is affectionate. I know what I would pick any day of the week. Why are you pretending there’s no such thing as context?

and using that to draw a conclusion about men generally

‘Men generally’ don’t call us whites, though. Or in this context, write “WHORE” in large letters in the front of a book, in place of the dedication that was asked for.

Of the men that do call us whores, I find it incredibly difficult to see that as an expression of solidarity with women. This is really not my experience any time that word has been used, including by gay men (who I’m afraid can still be misogynists), and I’m stunned to the point of disbelief that you’d draw this conclusion in this case just because he’s... gay? A good writer? What?

First you complain she was quiet , now that she's posted several times - make up your mind FFS!

It’s not difficult. I complained that despite her responding to multiple posts, the one thing she wouldn’t respond to was me asking for an explanation for her own misogynistic language. In a thread where the subject of the discussion is whether or not certain language is misogynistic, don’t you think that’s relevant?

antigon why not just stick to the thread in hand instead of bringing in other threads? That is really unfair and childish.

‘don’t call us whores’, argh autocorrect.

antigon well, it's not really on is it, to complain about misogynistic language and then call someone a groupie and a fangirl and starry eyed?

But it's a good point isn't it? Why be happy with a man calling you whore but object to being called a groupie for that man?

antigon It's not really the point though, is it?

The point is that if you're going to complain about using sexist language, you shouldn't really use sexist language yourself.

I find groupie far more dismissive than whore. Groupie implies someone who can't think for themselves, who slavishly follows what someone says/does. Whore is just a catchall insult for me, same as asshole or fuckwit. I am not really ok with being called either, but I wouldn't go on here saying that 'whore' is a terrible insult but it's ok for me to say 'groupie'.

antigon why not just stick to the thread in hand instead of bringing in other threads? That is really unfair and childish.

Because it's a relevant. Can you not see why someone who feels men should be entitled to women's spaces and is happy for high profile men to call women whores would make people uncomfortable?

Aren't you the poster that keeps posts about trans rights?

I’m the poster who (with occasional exceptions) hides all threads about transgenderism on MN because I find the constant transphobia exhausting and depressing. Shall we see how quickly this thread descents into a trans rights bun fight now that you’ve mentioned it? I wonder how many posts if will be until someone demands that I tell them exactly what my definition of woman is, please?

Of the men that do call us whores, I find it incredibly difficult to see that as an expression of solidarity with women. This is really not my experience any time that word has been used, including by gay men (who I’m afraid can still be misogynists), and I’m stunned to the point of disbelief that you’d draw this conclusion in this case just because he’s... gay? A good writer? What?

Gay men can definitely be misogynistic and I am absolutely aware that the word ‘whore’ is often used in a deliberately oppressive context. My point is that that isn’t what I believe DS means - not because he’s gay or a good writer, but because it would be so wildly out of keeping with the body of his work and the way he interprets the world.

I find groupie far more dismissive than whore. Groupie implies someone who can't think for themselves, who slavishly follows what someone says/does. Whore is just a catchall insult for me, same as asshole or fuckwit. I am not really ok with being called either, but I wouldn't go on here saying that 'whore' is a terrible insult but it's ok for me to say 'groupie'

No, I don't agree. Whore is also used to call a woman promiscuous, which is much worse than groupie, which brings to mind naive, exploited women.

Normalising whore normalises calling women promiscuous.

Ok, I saw my name mentioned in my 'I'm on', and I can say I was concentrating on ThisIsTheFirstStep's post, I honestly did not see your posts AuntBeastie. To answer your question, you are drawing a very long bow. Very long indeed. None of those words I used are misogynistic. They are either general neutral or in the case of fan 'girl' was used in place of fan boy, because, I presume you are female. However, none of the others are remotely misogynistic and you know it.

ThisIsTheFirstStep Funny how you side-step me proving that you did post about the list, I provided proof and you went quiet, just dismissing it as 'I don't care about the list'. Fine. But if you didn't, why did you accuse me of being 'desperate'? Why do you also not acknowledge you did mention it, hence my post. Who is really avoiding the hard questions? You have avoided all points by writing me off, ironically, accusing me of 'belittling' you, when it is you that is belittling me. You responded to other points, but you still refuse to respond to mine. And then accuse me of avoiding, which is exactly what you are doing.

AuntBeastie I'm not interested in your definition of a woman on this thread but I think your prior posts are relevant in the context of this thread.

I remembered your banw, didn't even AS you.

As Antigon says, whore is a vicious word with disempowering connotations for women. Groupie simply means fan or follower, and is gender neutral. I cannot imagine any possible way someone could find an innocuous word like groupie, as even remotely close to as offensive as 'whore'. It really has to be taking the piss, surely?

It wouldn’t be at all out of keeping with the body of his work as I see it. Writing “WHORE” to make someone cry would be, but writing “WHORE” because it is unexpected and shocking and wow what does that tell us about how we think of other people no matter how nice we believe we are, etc etc - yes that is very much him.

Oh what a surprise. Thinks it's OK for women to be called a whore, has a son who calls women whores and also supports TRAs.

However, none of the others are remotely misogynistic and you know it.

B U L L S H I T

Do you know what the literal definition of groupie is?

a young woman who regularly follows a pop group or other celebrity, especially in the hope of having a sexual relationship with them

Want to justify to me how it’s not misogynistic to accuse me of defending DS not because I admire his writing but because I’m a young woman slavishly following him around because I want to shag him?

As for ‘fanboy’, I’ve never heard that term. Unlike fangirling, which is used to describe obsessive and over the top behaviour from young women and girls obsessed with celebrities.

Your whole intention was to create a portrait of me as someone who can’t think for myself because I’m too obsessed with a famous man.

antigon I find it very rude and disrespectful to bring up other threads. People are allowed to have a range of views on things.

What's wrong with women being promiscuous? Besides, I don't think it's really used that way, post-mean girls. It's like if I call someone an asshole, I don't actually mean they are a small hole that poop comes out of, you know?

salem all those words are misogynistic. When was the last time you heard a boy called a groupie? It never happens. Fan girl is used far more often to reduce women to clueless buffoons that fan boy is towards men. But sure, defend yourself. It's not just those insults, it's how casually you stooped to using multiple insults against me and others. Hardly polite, reasoned debate.

Meanwhile, I threw one bit of snark your way and you lost your damn mind and have mentioned it in every post since.

I sidestepped your shit about the list because I literally couldn't give a shite about it. I read the word 'list' and ignored the rest of your sentence. Sorry, boo. I just can't get excited about it like you can.

I think ‘DS’ was ‘David Sedaris’ not the poster’s son.

salem groupie is gender neutral?

You are tripping.

Fairly baffled that ‘calling women you don’t even know “whore” isn’t actually misogynistic!’ is a hill people are prepared to die on here.

Groupie simply means fan or follower, and is gender neutral.

This is simply untrue. As in, just factually incorrect.

has a son who calls women whores

Are you talking about me? Because I don’t have any children.

@AuntBeastie I wasn't the first person who said you were acting like a groupie.

Oh Christ, fucking MN abbreviations. DS = David Sedaris.

salem so if someone else calls someone a groupie first, it's all good in your world?

You really seem to expect other people to take responsibility for everything you say.

I thought you had skulked off anyway. Don't you have important publishing work to be getting on with away from us non-publishing plebs who don't know about lists and whatnot?