Mothers should always be with their children until they are 3 years old

[abacucat]

This is what one parenting "expert" is recommending in the name of attachment parenting. And he does mean mothers, not fathers. AIBU to think this is a load of rubbish? Babies and toddlers are not damaged as is alleged, from spending time apart from their mother.

www.drmomma.org/2010/07/mother-toddler-separation.html

I think children staying with their mother's until 3 probably is what's the optimum for them, in a nurture sense. I say this as someone about to go back to a busy job and leaving a 1 year old full time Monday to Friday.

It's the biological norm for infants and small children to stay close to mum. More so than dad. It's biological. Not just a 'social stigma'

But we're all just doing the best we can, in whatever way. I don't take it as a personal attack.

Again I never said they "can't". Not once. Your outrage is affecting your comprehension skills. I'll sign off now...

Bytheriver read the thread if you want to know about biological norms!

Okay @peaky what you actually said is they WON'T be as good parents ... which could be considered worse especially if we're trying to facilitate a cultural shift away from sexist, misogynistic attitudes.

Would it be acceptable to say a woman won't be as good an engineer? ( Or any other traditionally male dominated profession) of course not. So why is it acceptable to says men won't be as good as women at raising children. Can you not see the wider implications of an attitude like that?

Yes I'm outraged - but rightly so. I abhor sexism is any form but I especially hate women being told it's solely their responsibility to raise a child it took two people to make. I hate women being made to sacrifice careers and therefore financial security because they're conditioned to believe it's their responsibility.

They want to stop work and be at home and if their partner is happy to be sole earner and hand over the majority of child and home stuff to the mother then that’s fine - it’s no one else’s business. The problem starts when these women (and it always seems to be the women not men!) try to extrapolate from that, that it’s the ‘best way.’

Totally agree with this point.

For what it's worth there are 2 couples in our social circle who have split it 50/50.

Both mum and dad work 2.5 days a week (one couple job shares the one job) therefore no need for childcare. I think it's great to see this kind of model being explored by parents. They have the kinds of jobs that can facilitate this of course, it's not an option open to everyone.

I'm obviously not making myself clear. I'm saying it falls to women to do the majority of childcare and it most likely will always be that way. I'm not saying I think it should be that way I'm just saying that's the way it is and will likely remain - be it due to patriarchy, biology or the mothers choice (most likely a combination). Your DH being an excellent dad and knowing one SAHD does not a massive cultural shift make!

Some Scandinavian countries have generous, but split parental leave, paid at more or less employed earnings levels. It's use it or lose it, so both parents mostly take it. As a result, both parents are closely involved in their children's lives, and if a split happens, it's automatically truly shared care, with no child support paid in either direction.

So yes, it is possible, but it takes serious state intervention to make it possible.

Interestingly, they have way smaller pay gaps between men and women, because there's no advantage to not hiring women if men carry the same childcare load.

The take up of the current shared parental leave option in the U.K. is shockingly low though. And although men have just as much right to request flexible working or part time hours, it is still vastly more women who do so. Which then becomes a cycle of women earning less, having less pension, fewer senior positions.

I’m not saying it has to be like this, because much of it is down to the partner you choose to have children with, and your shared values and outlook.

Like I said, it was very important to me for dh and I to have a balance of responsibilities. Our children were born 20 + years ago when there wasn’t the option of shared leave (or even paternity leave!) but we still managed to carve out a good balance, which has allowed us both to have good careers but without either of us feeling we’re got to reach the dizzy heights of earning mega bucks. I wouldn’t have wanted a situation where dh was working crazy hours or jet setting round the world with all the childcare responsibilities falling on me- and he wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on time with his children either by that lifestyle.

But what’s clear from this thread (and previous similar ones) is that some women really don’t want that kind of set up. They see time out of the workplace at home with the children as ‘theirs’, and don’t want to share parental leave or return to work after ML. And ultimately, as long as both partners are in agreement with the situation it really isn’t anyone else’s business. The problem is when anyone tries to claim that their way is the ‘best way.’

Having said that, I would expect that as time goes by, more couples will choose to balance earning and caring purely because in the 21st century, girls have the same opportunities as boys, they achieve as well educationally and don’t have the barriers to certain professions that existed previously. If women are leaving education and entering the workplace at a similar level to the men they are likely to partner, they’re starting off from an equal position which seems to make it more likely they’ll want to continue in that vein

Yes Sweden has definitely made massive strides here perfectstorm but it's still far from equal - even after decades of state intervention. It's heading in the right direction though!

I definitely thought maternity leave was mine and mine alone. I coslept and breastfed and really needed the downtime to recover my prepregnancy body and to get in synch with my baby. My DH could not have done that for me.

Obviously no one’s DH can carry the baby for them

But shared parental leave is not about getting back to your pre-pregnancy body. The purpose is to give dad the 1:1 time.
I wish it had been around when we had our babies- I’d have jumped at the chance. In my day it was back to work when the baby was 3 months old- though I co slept and bf long term too.

It would be really interesting to hear from his wife

just Mothers?leaving the dads free to earn the salary to support the patriarchy
My kids yea they’d chose nursery,their friends are there,it’s stable routine
I have no qualms working FT,never,not a jot.No mummy guilt. No desire to be housewife
I’m a good role model to my kids,they see both parents work.
Parenting isn’t about hours clocked up,it’s the engagement,attachment and consistency that matters

The problem is too many people make individual choices which suit them as a family.

Paternity leave wouldn’t have worked for us, and so we made decisions accordingly.

I don't agree with the statement. It's good for children to spend time away from their mothers. But I think that this time away should largely be with family and close friends. Sending 12 month old babies off to a daycare nursery for five days a week until they start school is not beneficial to the child IMO. I understand that some parents sometimes don't have much of a choice in doing that, but being with family who sincerley care about the individual child rather than someone who is paid to do often leads to a much better behaved and happy child.

TBH all children would benefit from having a happy, well balanced, loving and engaged SAHM for the first three years of their life. There is nothing very scandalous about believing that. There is also nothing very scandalous about acknowledging that many children won’t get that, for perfectly good reasons. 100% agree.

@whereis just a SAHM not a SAHP?? All the mothers responsibility again 🙄🙄🙄

but being with family who sincerley care about the individual child rather than someone who is paid to do often leads to a much better behaved and happy child
Anecdotal or actual evidence?!

I don’t exist soloely for my kids,so family decisions are made in basis of what’s good for all us.
I’d go fucking daft being at home not working,I have never wanted it
I work FT by choice I don’t need to work I chose it.i want it
The collective family,not just the kids.and in the hierarchy the adult parents get to make the big decisions
The where to live,employment,finance & lifestyle decisions are made by the adults
If I asked my kids would they like me at home they’d say yea.theyd also say yea to not going to school,playing fortnite and iPad and dvds all day. They have not got the judgment,overview or maturity for big decisions because they are kids

Parenting is a role that is increasingly being “professionalised”. Parents research child development and forward engineer their children’s experience of the world to ensure they maximise their potential,

Misogynistic twattery. YANBU.

Parenting is a role that is increasingly being “professionalised”. Parents research child development and forward engineer their children’s experience of the world to ensure they maximise their potential,

Yes I agree with this user - I'm definitely guilty of it! I keep my plans for them to myself though as my family think I'm ridiculous for researching so much

If I asked my kids would they like me at home they’d say yea.theyd also say yea to not going to school,playing fortnite and iPad and dvds all day. They have not got the judgment,overview or maturity for big decisions because they are kids

I don’t think you can compare something that’s good for the children, ie being cared for by a parent to something bad for the children, ie playing on tablets all day.

Not everything they want is bad for them!

Don’t be apologetic about being a “professional parent”, reforder. Your children’s experience and education will be great!

My point is,children cannot and do not always make balance and informed decisions
They don’t get to make the big choices about location,employment,education. That’s my role as a responsible adult
And no I’d not stay home,I’ve never wanted to,and I didn’t. FT nursery from 6mth old
My life isn’t defined by my kids and it’s not a giving things up competition. Giving up career isn’t a measure of how much I love my kids. My career provides money,stability,and my children see me model,employment and a good work ethic. I think these are good roles to demonstrate to my kids.

Children are obviously not the decision makers in families: decision making is their parents’ responsibility. Children do, however, need to be heard and to receive valid explanations as to why their feelings and desires cannot be respected.