AIBU to state that no one thinks Self ID for Trans gender people should be passed as law.

[Shiklah]

Thank you for reading my thread.

I would appreciate respectful debate on this issue as I am utterly bewildered. Please do not attack me and call me a transphobic person. I am not. I work with vulnerable women and children, including victims of grooming gangs, in Calderdale. I live in a town very close to where Karen White lived and abused his victims which has made me research this topic.

I posted on MN yesterday asking for views on the media calling Karen White - a male rapist - she. I have researched and read continuously for the last 24 hours and am now utterly bewildered. It seems that the government, media and many trusted organisations are willing to pass over the rights of women and children to support the rights of men who may or may not be transgendered.

Transgendered people have dysphoria, this means that being a trans woman and being a rapist are exclusive - you cannot be one if you are the other. it makes no sense. It seems very clear that if self ID goes thru then any man which a personality disorder and fetish can ID as a woman and use this loop hole to gain access to hospitals, prisons, detention centres, children's homes, refuges and rape crisis centres. As women, we must protect those that are vulnerable, it cannot be right that to meet the needs of a maligned group (trans gender people) we sacrifice the rights of another?

We have a system that seems flawed - maybe it needs to change, maybe it needs review, I am not trans and would like to hear from those that are to advise on this, please help me understand........ but AIBU to state that self ID is unacceptable to women, children and truly transgendered people who will suffer if the likes of Karen White are considered to be 'women'?

Thanks for reading.

Personally I think that when you change your gender you don't change your sex

But what does ‘change your gender’ even mean? If I’m a woman with short hair, no make up, wearing jeans and a t-shirt and working as a mechanic have I ‘changed gender’?
If I’m a man who carries a bag and wears some eyeliner and works at a nail salon have I ‘changed gender’?
Or if I’m a man who says I ‘feel’ like a woman have I ‘changed gender’?

So you are saying as a society women should automatically be wary around man? And that what is considered "normal"? What source is the 0.07% from?

Um, yes, that is literally how most women on the planet have to live... Are you male or female chicken?

Dunno where i read the 0.07% stat, will have a search.

Im female ive never felt that and im sure if i asked women around me they would have same view as me. I do not believe that is a "normal" reaction

I'm currently reading Vox, set in a time when women can only say 100 words a day and aren't allowed to read. I don't think this is too far a stretch from reality. Before we know it there will be "men" and "other-men".

Meet the no tails:

https://glosswatch.com/2016/09/14/the-science-museum-forthcoming-exhibitions/

5 seconds in Google...

Note the huge difference in statistics for diagnosable dysphoria rather than the looser term 'transgender'.

Wow, well I'm very happy for you that you have managed to avoid sexual harassment, threatening language, cat calling, assault and general creepy shit from the men you have encountered in your life.
I would say you are absolutely the exception to the rule.

Well thank you for being happy for me, its definitely a converstaion i will be having with my female friends and colleagues and be interested if they r also exceptions from the rule.

We're not talking about men that you know we're talking about if for example you got on a train carriage and there was a group of men and you had to walk past them would you feel uncomfortable or worried. If you are on your own walking home and there was a man walking behind you with that make you feel nervous.

Also, bear in mind many women prefer not to discuss traumatic events such as sexual assault, childhood abuse, and will often minimise sexual harassment as something you just had to put up with.
Many women's lived experiences are not nullified by your friends anecdata.
I haven't reported any of the crap I experience to the police as it was he said/she said and nigh on impossible to prove.

Also when i said, more than a few.I meant out of group of transpeople , more than a few want to "few transsexual individuals who are just trying to live a quiet life." Which u quoted not transpeople from whole population. Which u gave % on.

Im also not talking about men i know, no i dont feel worried around men in general im not concerned if i see a man or group of men in the street, my first thought isnt something bad might happen

Well I think you're very unusual in that case

I'm not clear what you mean there, but my intended meaning was that genuine dysmorphic trans individuals are a tiny proportion of the UK population, yet they retain the offending rates of their born sex. So, we have just as much right to be wary of them as any other natal man.
When you then include the trans umbrella, there is a much much higher chance that those trans people will not have body dysmophia, and so they are even less likely to be of no threat to women.

And as I have said on previous threads, you unfortunately don't get to pick and choose which people use the term 'trans', so the Karen Whites and Jacintas of this world must be included as well as genuine transsexuals who have no intention of harming anyone.

Trans people seem to be most at risk from male violence and yet they attack feminists for stating the same fear! How can they be so self obsessed!

Yes, this is probably what annoys me most about this whole thing.
Male trans person: I don't want to use the mens because of male violence
Self ID supporter: Oh thats understandable, males are quite violent overall
Woman: I don't want males in womens spaces, because male violence
Self ID supporter: You fucking bigoted TERF. Men are perfectly safe and if they aren't and they attack you you can always call the police. Go die in a fire.

chicken2015

Your posts in this thread made me think of a thread that I found so upsetting, though not unexpected based on my own experiences

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2756721-to-think-most-women-have-been-victims-of-sexual-assault-has-anyone-not

Nearly all posters said they had. I believe this is pretty much universal, though many of the women being honest about their experiences here, would not be as honest in real life unless with a very close friend. I know I am comfortable discussing my experiences with men on here..but I wouldn't with most people I know.

yet they retain the offending rates of their born sex.

More than that for sexual violence, people who identify as trans..have higher rates of committing sexual offences than men do.

This is, IMO, because the definition of trans includes crossdressers, and its quite well known that that particular fetish is over represented among sex offenders. So...stonewall lumping transsexual people in with crossdressers (and various other groups) is the reason for higher offending rates. And Stonewall, the government, supporters, transactivists, want these males to be in female areas. No thanks.

The people I have spoken to in rl were either anti self Id (and none of them are what could be described as remotely feminist or bigotted), had never heard of self id or pro trans right (but they thought of a typical transwoman was a post op minus penis person.) However between explaining to them that gender in an innate feeling and that 80% kept their penis, Karen white and others, female penis, the implications regarding (communal) changing rooms and sports, and terms such as cis female, chestfeeding etc they were easily converted into being anti self Id. I'm quite proud to say I've converted quite a few people in the last few days. Usually it's either Karen white or female penis that does it.

It doesn’t bother me at all tbh. I think everyone here is quite frenzied about it, making out as if everywhere you turn there’s going to be ‘men in dresses waiting to rape you’ and I just find that quite odd really.. but then I guess I’m not a womanly woman myself and have no interest in feminism, just ‘humanism’ I also have excess testosterone if I don’t take my PCOS pill so I guess that makes me not so biologically a woman either although I have given birth so god knows

Im happy to hear others’ opinions on anything at all, but I do think the voices on here have been silenced by the absolute shit show of hysteria and sheer amount of threads that just essentially repeat one another constantly so I think you’d probably reach a wider audience if people didn’t find them so boring and monotonous they don’t even bother opening them.

You’ll never get a true account of opinions or debates here because the people who do agree with it, or are, godforbid, trans themselves won’t speak up because of the repercussions of having a different opinion to what seems like the masses.

And for a pp to suggest the only people that are for self ID are the ones wanting to basically hunt and rape vulnerable women is just bloody lucicrous, and prove exactly the point I was making about hysteria and silencing your opinion, op.

I also have excess testosterone if I don’t take my PCOS pill so I guess that makes me not so biologically a woman either

How on earth do you figure that? If you are female and adult, you are a woman. Males are not women

Also plenty of trans people post on these threads. Transsexual people seem to be against self ID on the whole. But of course they would be as if they wanted a GRC they could get one, due to having dysphoria. The ones shouting for self ID do not have that generally, so couldn't get one. Hence the shouting.

Dark so you think that Karen White was genuinely a woman and in the right prison? Because we’ve been accused of hysteria for predicting that that would have, and people like you accused us of whipping up a storm - and then it did happen. Four women were sexually assaulted by a man pretending to be a woman in a women’s prison. ‘Stop being so hysterical (nice misogynistic insult there, btw)’ you cried ‘it’ll never happen, leave the poor transwomen alone’.

I stand by what I said. Self ID is an abuser’s Charter and everyone who supports it is complicit.

chicken I’m still not sure I follow you. When homosexuality was illegal gay people had to present to be straight. So-called trans people have to pretend all the time to be the opposite sex. There is no way they can actually change sex. That does not seem to me a very good way to live. I can’t support that.

*pretend to be straight

dark

A small veriation in testosterone doesn't make you a biological man

There is even a clue in the name PCOS