to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

[Foreverexhausted]

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

The teachers at your local state school individually assess all potential applicants before accepting them, Yura?

The very fact someone's parents are willing/able to pay for their education shows that they are already in the right environment to foster success in academia

I'm sure that's generally true but there are plenty of kids at private school who board whose parents aren't involved in the slightest. And lots who have parents who don't care!

“In schools up and down the Country some kids are not reaching their true potential because of conditions in that school”

Any facts and figures to support this?

“Shy, quiet and academically ok kids do well below what they are capable off”

Any facts and figures to support this?

I don'tthink its possible to get the 'best' out of all kids with the current state curriculum, hours and class sizes. Its just not! Of course if you are quiet and no bother you could get overlooked, not sure why that's even in question tbh.

@Ennirem
No - but a teacher who has been at a school for years usually know what THEIR school is good at. And who they can’t pay attention to. The quiet, academically ok but not stellar ones are usually the ones not getting a lot of attention if ressources are limited. Its 30 kids per teacher, ressources are very limited.

I like it that at the private school (that my son attends), the boys are pushed to be the absolute best at everything and there is a wide menu of onsite activities (lunchtime, afterschool and weekends) to choose from. There are boys who are academic, musical, sporty, quirky, special needs, all of whom are catered for.

Granted not everybody wants to excel but if your child enjoys that sort of thing or needs to be pushed by peer pressure, that is the sort of school environment they could thrive in or have a greater chance of fulfilling their potential. My son says a boy can get credibility and respect for being good at anything. There is no hierarchy (ok, sports trumps all) or disdain for achievement.

If all you want is for your child to be happy, then I imagine good state provision should be sufficient. Private school parents by and large fall into the achievement category, which is why they are prepared to shell out for it.

I boarded at a highly regarded private school. All the world's riches would not entice me to send my own kids to anything other than the local comprehensive. I don't agree with segregation, it's divisive and doesn't equip children for the wider society in which we live.

we felt that it was important that they are able to understand and get on with people from all walks of life.

I don't see how a private school prevents this unless your child does no socialising outside of school

Most children socialise with
(1) those they go to school with
(2) those they do extra curricular activities with
(3) those who live near them

A private school child who only does extra curricular at school and lives in an area where it's not normal to "play out" and where they are not part of the local community by virtue of going to a local school, might well not socialise outside of the children in their school.

The majority of posters replying to this thread cannot actually afford to pay school fees - so rather a moot point. I've always said that I wouldn't want the bother of a holiday home in Devon or Cornwall - but if I had a spare £500K lying around I might be persuaded.

Bertrand have you ever learnt anything from life experience? Are you unable to understand or learn anything unless a (probably biased anyway) piece of "research" from the internet is given to you? Try talking to people who have experienced things that you haven't, its a great way to broaden your mind and learn something new.

"Bertrand have you ever learnt anything from life experience?"

Yes, loads. But I don't make categorical statements based on things I have learned that was as if they were actual, testable fact.

Quite a lot of data if you look for it:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-most-able-students-an-update-on-progress-since-june-2013

www.teachersbs.co.uk/news/press-releases/details/2017/08/31/one-in-four-parents-have-moved-house-to-be-within-desired-school-catchment-area

"Can we stop repeating the myth that that children from certain families will do well in any school? "

I agree. I really wish that were true, but I think it's a bit naïve to say that really. However good a teacher someone is, there's only so much they can do to meet the individual needs of 30 children of wide-ranging abilities and differing challenges, in circumstances where dwindling financial resources mean you have no TA support.

DS1 is the kind of child who will knuckle down anywhere, work hard, not be distracted and did really well in his state primary.

DS2 is equally bright, probably more so actually. But he is very easily distracted, does as little work as he can get away with, rushes through things as quickly as possible. He spent a fair proportion of last year reading his books in class because he'd rushed through both the normal and the greater depth work available and had to occupy himself while the rest of the class caught up. There was no TA resource and no extension work. He was bored a lot of the time and started to disengage.

By contrast, when DS1 was in the same class (with the same teachers) 3 years previously, he worked hard whether someone was giving him individual attention or not, and also there was TA resource available, so he was taken out of class a fair bit for extension work.

The fact that DS2 now has 11 children in his class plus plentiful resources at school for individual extension work to meet his needs is already making a huge difference. He is much more engaged with his learning, is doing lots of extension stuff and is making brilliant progress.

It's just naïve to say that intelligent children from supportive backgrounds will do well anywhere. DS2 would probably do perfectly ok results-wise if he had stayed in the state system, and that would have been my preference. But it is very, very clear to me that he will do hugely better where he now is. It makes me sad that that is the case, but as I say, there is only so much that can be done in circumstances where in real terms, state school funding is being cut year-on-year.

I think too OP that as your child goes through school
You'll be surprised in pleasant and unpleasant ways at how education works for your DC. I was unprepared for the number of the parents at the comp who had no aspirations for their children. Zero. In the other hand there were some who were hugely optimistic and aspirational and fortunately DC made friends with those children all on their own.
On the other hand when DS reaches sixth form we were amazed to find a teacher who had gone to the same uni he was aiming for in the same subject. He was a huge help and support and role model. Likewise DD found a couple of teachers in her subject who really did the business. Sadly they had to wait til sixth form to encounter them... but still!

My DP and I went to state comps - north west (it was a terrible school) and the midlands (his was a quite good one but he needed x tuition) We both went onto university education on grants. We both feel we did well INSPITE of our schooling - but sadly not because of it. We both had poor teachers and had to put a lot of self drive in to scrape our grades to move on. We have a high income.
Both of our kids have gone to private school from 11-18 and they are exceptional schools on a national level. The big difference we see v state schools isn't not facilities and all that fluff, but those school abilities to attract and retain fantastic teachers and staff who are motivated and at the top of their game. The other thing we notice is private schools ability to chuck out bad staff quickly. We both remember limping along for years with bad teachers that the state system couldn't get rid of, those teachers had the scope to put you off a subject forever.
Networking, old boys club (whatever that is) are of no interest to us and all the other rubbish that people often associate with private schools. I hate to think what we've spent....but you can't take it with you when you go can you? The kids have both got lovely friendship groups and seem reasonably well balanced; though unlike us,they've had every help.

Here’s a deal. I won’t judge today’s private schools on what some of them were like 20 years ago if other people won’t judge today’s state schools on what someone rhem were like 20 years ago.....l

I agree with saffy.

It is fine to have your principles of fairness and equal access when the children are younger. However, once it starts to get critical (i.e. GCSEs and A-levels looming), you start to feel the keenness if the school or an individual teacher is failing your dcs. Granted this can happen in any type of school, whether state or private. The point is when the stakes are higher, and your dcs' future starts to get impacted is when your principles are tested.

Thankfully, I have no qualms as far as my dcs are concerned.

I think its the aspiration and high standards you pay for. We both state educated (and without being smug have done "well" if not better than many privately educated peers) and our kids are at the local very good state school but coming into contact with privately educating families I can see the appeal. As my 12 yr old dd who goes to some of their clubs says "everything they do is just better" . You have to make quite an effort to ensure your child gets to experience things they have as part of their school day.

If their state school wasn't as good as it is (top 3% in England) I would be sorely tempted. We could manage it but would have a much less fun life as a family.

A lot depends on the child. If the child wants to make the most of an experience at private school they will succeed. If the child messes about not applying themselves to anything 100% it will not be any better than a state school.

Ds is actually doing a lot better academically at a good but nowhere near outstanding state school (predicted 7/8 in maths and science rather than 4/5/6's than he was at the best in the area private school.

The provate school was far too pressurised and he crumpled. Also it seemed to be that if you didn't fit their round hole you had to knock your square corners off and conform or leave.

Doesn't it boil down to the fact that children will thrive where they are happiest? By 'thrive' I don't just mean attaining results but getting the opportunity to flourish and find things they're good at, building confidence, having friends etc.

Being able to pay for private is lucky in that you have more choices, but that doesn't mean private will necessarily be best.

Yes I think you are right.

It is a mixture/balancing act of course. At the private school his Year 8 maths teacher just did not get him and he did not get her. He ended up having to have 1:1 support in all maths lessons just to function.

A change of schools in year 9 and he spent 3 weeks in his new maths set with a teacher who he understood and then was moved up into the top set where he is now one of the high achievers.

Now obviously if he's been happy but with a rubbish teacher that would not have happened. But you can have an excellent teacher and not achieve becaseu you are not happy.

What an interesting thread. People who are open and honest about their recent experiences in private schools. There are still of course the ones who have never any experience of privates and who still churn out the same old rubbish.

I went to a bog standard secondary modern. No aspirations but I did Ok despite it in the end. No one went to university. Pupils left and got jobs. Once I had the children I knew I didn't want that for them. We started on the private prep route and in two years we will have finished completely (Yay!).

Both children went to one of the most well known boarding schools in the UK. I am just a mere mortal, we didn't have a trust fund or generous grandparents. We both work full time and it has been a struggle at times but I do not regret it one little bit. The confidence it gives them to try anything. They aren't massively academic but they have done the very best they can and that is down to the school. AAB at A Level for oldest child. He has now completed his business degree at a RG university and is now taking a year off funded by working as a barman. Any example of them thinking that this is how all people live is swiftly slapped down. We know it isn't. They go into London, they are often offered drugs and because of the previously mentioned confidence they bat it away. Neither smoke.

Do I think they would have turned out like this if they had gone to the nearest state school...

NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!

I agree that children will thrive where they are happiest, and if they have a good teacher they get on with.
Personally, I just want mine to achieve what she can, and like that her school won't force resists, or extra revision classes.
That might not suit other parents.
Private or State doesn't matter, if it's a good fit for your child.