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travelinterest · 12/10/2018 08:59

After a conversation with friends, and with obesity (especially in young people) becoming a bigger crisis than smoking in our society, am I unreasonable to think that as we villanise smoking and drinking, should we fat shame more to encourage people to change their lifestyles. It's certainly worked with reducing smoking rates. Don't attack me (I've lost 2 stone). Just wondering why we target smoking more than fast food?

OP posts:
whitewineimissyou · 25/10/2018 10:09

Madeleine that is what I mean about practical support.
What’s the point of telling someone to move more if they aren’t sure where to start? Eat less move more doesn’t mean anything, some people don’t have access to good nutritional food and the means to cook it properly.
So much food is marketed as healthy when it is not.
If there were funded classes with instructors used to helping people get into exercise would this not be helpful?
Rather than the daunting prospect of going into a gym on your own, assuming that everyone there will know what they are doing and be really fit.
Community cooking classes, healthy and simple recipe books, advice on sourcing cheap fresh food (eating seasonal products etc). bringing people together in a supportive way may help and if a parent is educated in healthy cooking, it will only support next generation to be a healthy one.
Schools could follow this up with proper healthy cookery classes (for both sexes before any feminists jump in).
Furthermore stop smoking promotions have not stopped any smokers that I know of from avoiding their pharmacy.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
But the government could give people (and the nhs) a chance with a more pragmatic approach to support, and by reigning in the free for all on advertising and selling junk food.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 25/10/2018 19:02

involves HCPs barking at you to eat less and move more, which is both unhelpful and, in some cases, inaccurate

I dont agree . This thread (understandably) is full of hurt people. People who for reasons either emotional, mental or physical can’t lose weight . I am not denying a rape victim her desire to overeat , or a hormone /thyroid issues that causes you too balloon

It’s sucks - and fat shaming is vile .

But I get very angry when I see fat kids and fat teenagers . We cannot say we have an issue and bury our head in the sands when the streets are full of kids that through no fault of their own waddle

Line after line of criticism of HCP here

My doctor told me my persistent back pain was down to smoking . I gave up
It didn’t go
The next doctor told me to lose weight . So I did . Took almost a year

Guess what ? No more back pain

I think people need to look beyond their genuine pain and upset and see the bigger picture as what the HCP says might fuck your off but it might help the next person

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 25/10/2018 19:06

What’s the point of telling someone to move more if they aren’t sure where to start?

People are not stupid you know . They have the internet and YouTube and libraries .

It’s not rocket bloody science

Stop eating white bread
Walk more
Eat frozen peas and broccoli and carrots
Have porridge
Get off the bus a few stops earlier
Stop take always
Reduce the booze

Sorry but the excuses people
Make here .

A head of broccoli costs less than a 4 pack of donuts !

whitewineimissyou · 25/10/2018 19:19

Nope don’t agree with that at all @stopfuckingshouting.
Habits are incredibly hard to break. How many smokers stop on their own? More succed with help and support.
This is before even starting on all of the emotional aspects of why some people may have a tendency to overeat.
Then these issues aside, some people with lower educational attainment may struggle to whip up healthy meals on the cheap. I would think there are children in some primary schools who haven’t even tasted many fruits and vegetables when they start school. So a full four years of having their brains wired up for junk food. Probably because their mum doesn’t know better/may not care/because sausage rolls are filling and are four for less than a couple of quid from Greggs and she needs her money to stretch.

Gyms can be bloody daunting at the best of times, never mind if you are overweight and feel self conscious.

People sometimes live in an isolated way. Depression and low self esteem can affect your ability to look after yourself. If you are truly depressed what may appeal to you more Is easy warm and tasty food, rather than bothering to make something healthy then go for a run.
And yes of course getting the right nutrients and exercise would help the depression, but it has to be about helping people and their mindset to get there and do these things.

staydazzling · 25/10/2018 19:38

We need to drastically change the way we view Obesity. Overweight/Chronic Obesity are 2 different things we need to stop lumping it together. Overweight can be helped by lifestyle changes fairly effectively many people who suffer from Chronic Obesity have deep psychological issues its often trauma based. And young carers are also disproportionately affected, It needs to treat with the sensitivity shown to other eating disorders, otherwise nothing will change and why nothing is changing

Gwenhwyfar · 25/10/2018 19:52

"So for example the smoking ban, was not smoking shaming, if was just a ban. "

I disagree a bit there. It contributed to making smoking less socially acceptable. It's still legal to smoke in your own home, but a lot of people will go to the garden or something now if there are non smokers around.

I agree with your police suggestions.

Gwenhwyfar · 25/10/2018 19:54

"Please tell us how someone's weight is related to a dislocated finger?"

I don't know, but the point is that your doctor can speak to you about your general health. When we're at the point that people call advice from the doctor 'fat shaming' we have to realise we have a big problem as a society.

Gwenhwyfar · 25/10/2018 19:57

"Stop eating white bread"

Not really necessary to stop eating what is a staple food. Just eat it in moderation so you're not taking in too many calories.

BumDisease · 25/10/2018 21:33

"I don't know, but the point is that your doctor can speak to you about your general health. When we're at the point that people call advice from the doctor 'fat shaming' we have to realise we have a big problem as a society"


Tidy2018 · 26/10/2018 06:36

Spotting potential weight problems could start with children's dentists. Slim active kids with some dental caries may be heading towards weight gain in the teen years.

Let's look at what children are given that is beyond their parents'/carers' control, and that can become bad habits, e.g.

IME 40 minute ballet classes for tinies given gooey chewy snake things while having their shoes changed at the end.

Kids' club, one hour long - diluting juice and biscuits halfway through, a Quality Street as they leave.

90 minute uniform organisation - juice and biscuits halfway.

Throughout the year, trying to persuade kindly but misguided relatives to avoid giving sweeties. "Just one won't hurt". No, but it all adds up.

Relentless excuses for eating - Halloween parties and parades at eeach activity this week and next. Selection boxes at Christmas, Easter eggs, tin of Haribo at summer. All from well-meaning, but unthinking, adults.

Absolutely relentless, and distressing for me when I get a bollocking at their dental appts.

ParentPay at school at school for "tuck" at playtime. Weeks later I find out what they're really eating, as opposed to what I suggest they eat. Cake sweetened with carrots is fine except that they don't understand this, and just want any cake.

When did children become unable to survive without all these sugary "treats" and snacks?

Constant sucking on water bottles. By all means keep hydrated, but can't it be only at playtime and lunchtime?

Hidden sugar everywhere. As they get older, carb cravings with pms, ravenous boys saying there's nothing to eat in the fridge when what they really mean is there's no pizza or Fridge Raiders to grab when they can't be bothered making a sandwich.

As they get older and go into town with friends, their environment is full of fast-food places They might be slim and active as students, but they don't cycle because of heavy traffic. Soon they'll graduate and work long sedentary hours and wonder why they're ballooning up as they eat at their desks instead of having an hour to relax and digest a proper meal.

Shouting "fat cunt" at me in the street is not going to fix this.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 26/10/2018 08:42

I think from an HCP aspect people don’t actually realise how unhealthy it is to be overweight

I didn’t realise ! I was carrying the equivalent of a 3 stone child on my body . No wonder my back ached

My aunt has had to have her knees and foot done
My dad got type 2 diabetes

So yes fat shaming is NOT the answer . But as a society was have got very very bad and scarily fast too .

The overhaul needed is massive and we have an economy already structured to keep us fat so it’s not going to be very easy

Plus we have a disdain for authority

Sugar tax , slated
HCP , we say they ‘fat shame’
Schools weigh kids , people get upset

And so on .

Tidy2018 · 26/10/2018 08:46

LOs have just reminded me that there is a Halloween party at after-school club, so another source of potentially sweet treats.

travelinterest · 26/10/2018 09:23

Clear to see the majority believe it is a lifestyle choice which we should all be making. Judging others may hopefully help them to join with the majority and make the changes themselves 

OP posts:
OhDoGrowUp · 26/10/2018 09:51

Confused are you sure you’re reading the same thread? I think most people disagree with you op.

florafawna · 26/10/2018 09:53

We are too relaxed about greed these days (former obese here).

florafawna · 26/10/2018 09:54

Obesity is the UK's biggest cause of cancer after smoking

OhDoGrowUp · 26/10/2018 09:54

Well, as a never-been-obese-in-my-life, I don’t think “we” are too relaxed about greed. Some people maybe.

OhDoGrowUp · 26/10/2018 09:56

I don’t think anyone is disputing that obesity is dreadful for your health flora. The argument is, will fat shaming magically cure people of fatness? I think absolutely not.

And I’m not overweight, so am not being defensive.

TheFrenchLieutenantsMonkey · 26/10/2018 10:40

Ive tried to reply to this thread several times. I keep typing things and deleting them.
The attitudes of people like the OP are the reason I hate eating in public and secretly eat away from everyone, including my DH and my DC.
Why I'm paranoid about my children being overweight to such an extent i worry I'll damage them further.
The reason i see my reflection and feel.nothing but disgust.
The reason i feel the need to be punished and score my skin with knives and my own fingernails. (Always with a ready explanation for the injury)
I am obese and I know it. Telling me I am unhealthy does not motivate me. It makes me ashamed yes. So you will have succeeded in shaming me. But i need no help with that.
A lifestyle change is all thats needed? Live my life for a day, more importantly take my 40 years of being fatshamed (even when i wasnt actually fat, just broader and taller than my friends and made to a bodyguard for their protection from unwanted attention)
Its not just a person's physical weight that you are mocking/commenting on/passing judgement on. It is their mental weight too.
Its the weight of everyone else's belief that they have the right to criticise, sneer, shame and berate you for the way you look that causes me, for I can only speak for myself, to look the way I do.
For me to change my lifestyle it's not just hefting my 18st body to the gym. Its having the energy and ability to move all of that mental weight and believe me, some days it has the mass of a planet.

MadeleineMaxwell · 26/10/2018 10:43

Line after line of criticism of HCP here

Almost like there's a common theme emerging, right? Could it be that HCPs are generally utterly crap at getting people to lose weight because they go about it the wrong way?

According to a 2015 study, fat people who feel discriminated against have shorter life expectancies than fat people who don't. “These findings suggest the possibility that the stigma associated with being overweight,” the study concluded, “is more harmful than actually being overweight.”

And, in a cruel twist, one effect of weight bias is that it actually makes you eat more. The stress hormone cortisol—the one evolution designed to kick in when you’re being chased by a tiger or, it turns out, rejected for your looks—increases appetite, reduces the will to exercise and even improves the taste of food. Sam, echoing so many of the other people I spoke with, says that he drove straight to Jack in the Box last year after someone yelled, “Eat less!” at him across a parking lot.

Clicky link

Fat shaming does not work. Current approaches to weight loss and obesity do not work.

Acknowledging the infinite complexity of each person’s relationship to food, exercise and body image is at the center of her treatment, not a footnote to it. “Eighty percent of my patients cry in the first appointment,” Sogg says. “For something as emotional as weight, you have to listen for a long time before you give any advice. Telling someone, 'Lay off the cheeseburgers' is never going to work if you don't know what those cheeseburgers are doing for them.”


Diet is the leading cause of death in the United States, responsible for more than five times the fatalities of gun violence and car accidents combined. But it’s not how much we’re eating—Americans actually consume fewer calories now than we did in 2003. It’s what we’re eating.

For more than a decade now, researchers have found that the quality of our food affects disease risk independently of its effect on weight. Fructose, for example, appears to damage insulin sensitivity and liver function more than other sweeteners with the same number of calories. People who eat nuts four times a week have 12 percent lower diabetes incidence and a 13 percent lower mortality rate regardless of their weight. All of our biological systems for regulating energy, hunger and satiety get thrown off by eating foods that are high in sugar, low in fiber and injected with additives. And which now, shockingly, make up 60 percent of the calories we eat.

In 2017, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, the expert panel that decides which treatments should be offered for free under Obamacare, found that the decisive factor in obesity care was not the diet patients went on, but how much attention and support they received while they were on it. Participants who got more than 12 sessions with a dietician saw significant reductions in their rates of prediabetes and cardiovascular risk. Those who got less personalized care showed almost no improvement at all.

So the strategies that might work are intense, long-term, personal and customised support programmes with trained specialists, and moving away as a society from additive-laden shite to less- or non-processed food. But that's expensive, slow and difficult. The current approach of basically informing fat people they're fat and should do something about it is way cheaper but fantastically ineffective.

Lipoedema · 26/10/2018 13:38

I find this post really offensive.

I have lipoedema, which is a genetic fat condition which I have no control over. This fat can not be dieted or exercised away. It has been recognised as a condition since the 1940's by the Mayo clinic and is also recognised by the NHS.

This genetic disorder has no cure. Sufferers, because our fat is painful to the touch and causes en-masse bruising, along with the mental health issues that this causes from the inability to lose weight.

It is suggested that up to 11% of the female population have a form of lipoedema.

I'm not sure anyone shouting 'Oy fatty!' to me in the street is going to be particularly helpful or constructive!!

As many have said already, most overweight people know they are overweight! They need help and education.

Me, I am overweight (obvs) but I am as strong as an ox. I go to the gym 3 times a week, don't smoke, a light drinker, perfect blood pressure and cholesterol...alot more than could be said for some of the 'skinny' people out there.

Ever heard the term 'skinny fat'..yes, where you look super slim but your organs are encased by visceral fat because of a poor diet.

Not all of us are blessed with perfect genetics. How is anyone going to know who to shame and to not shame! Grow up and think about it before posting, and gets some facts!

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 27/10/2018 09:36

The challenge with these threads is we
Often find overweight posters who have tried and for whatever reason failed . And with a healthy dose of self loathing to boot

We never get someone saying
‘Yes ! I have 4 pints a night , start each day with a fry up and there is your answer ‘

I found it suprisingly simple to lose weight . Like - doh ! Why didn’t I try this earlier

But it’s clear for many people it’s a bit more complex than that .

I would love to hear from people living in a culture that normalises healthy eating

Scandinavia , Japan , France spring to mind

What are their cultural mores ? Do they have different genes ? What do their poor people do ?

OhDoGrowUp · 27/10/2018 10:05

I lived in France for a year and gained about 2 stone while there! It really isn’t the weight loss holy grail I’m afraid.

Even some developing countries have an obesity problem now. It’s not just a UK thing. We’re not even as fat as Australia. We’re the worst in Europe (except maybe Malta or Ireland) though, but I saw plenty of overweight people in France.

wrongendofthisdick · 29/10/2018 11:01

Since we don’t see many overweight people in Japan, overweight people tend to stand out and can feel uncomfortable due to the silent pressure from their peers. Sometimes they are not so silent. My Japanese friends often remind me about the weight gain whenever I see them. It is very rude to talk about the weight in America and unless I bring that up, nobody tells me that I’ve put on some weight. But Japanese are pretty blunt

I went to get a massage in Osaka a few years ago, and the masseuse who was giving me massage told me “this must be tough for you.” I knew exactly what she was talking about because my weight was at its peak. “I live in America and just visiting..” I told her. She then went on to ask me about the diet, exercise..basically telling me that I was fat! I was embarrassed so I worked hard to shed some pounds right after that massage

Ryderryder · 29/10/2018 15:00

I read somewhere that France does a higher percentage of bariatric surgery than the UK. Maybe that's why there are less people who are obese.

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