Fatshaming

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After a conversation with friends, and with obesity (especially in young people) becoming a bigger crisis than smoking in our society, am I unreasonable to think that as we villanise smoking and drinking, should we fat shame more to encourage people to change their lifestyles. It's certainly worked with reducing smoking rates. Don't attack me (I've lost 2 stone). Just wondering why we target smoking more than fast food?

Fatshaming stopped me running. I'm an emotional eater (besides having three different kind of hormonal problems), if you make me uncomfortable then I tend to go home and eat.

I also feel that random people have nothing to do with my weight. I'm fine with my doctor pointing out that I'm fat. I'm not fine with going on little sleep, arranging FIL's funeral, sorting out everything for MIL, doing the heavy grocery shopping for her and then get to be told off by some visiting neighbour that I shouldn't eat that cookie with my cup of tea. Just offer your condoleances FFS.

@theredjellybean a bit late back to this thread but if it helps in my experience with my GP practice it is:

-doing the head tilt and adopting the 'you stupid fat person' tone every time weight is mentioned

• 'well simple lifestyle changes like switching from full fat milk to skimmed milk, and white bread to whole meal will do wonders' (I've been on a ducking diet for 10 years, do you think I have even sniffed at full fat milk or white bread for years? )
• going in for an issue with my finger (turned out to be dislocated) and the appt turning into a lecture on weight
• in fact going in for anything and it turning into a lecture in weight - and often disregarding the issue you've gone in for because it must be because you're fat, it couldn't possible be anything else
• being lectured on weight by people that clearly aren't in the healthy weight range themselves (either end)
• being diagnosed with pcos a decade ago (came off the combined pill after 20 years and just inflated - 5 stone in 6 months) and whenever I beg for help on that getting a tinkly 'oh you'll just need to lose weight', No shit Sherlock but when you go to WW and lose 0.5lb in a month (despite you and your housemate doing/eating EXACTLY the same and her losing 0.5 stone in the same time period) it's quite soul destroying.

And my GP wonders why I flat out avoid them if at all possible - including when they ask me to go in. If it's medically relevant then yes talk about it, but otherwise don't.

Does anyone remember that group that kept going up to people who they thought were obese and handing them notes that they are costing the NHS money and they should look after them. Think they got banned in the end.

Telling someone the obvious is no good, bit worrying when someone who is 25 stone claims they're healthy. But hey I'm no doctor. Healthier lifestyles should be encouraged. So should knowing how to cook properly! Bit shocking here in the UK how much people rely on fast food variations. Bit of home economics (sorry feminists) would go a long way here.

I think your intentions were right but you have expressed it in the wrong way.
So for example the smoking ban, was not smoking shaming, if was just a ban.
I think it would be ideal if there was a ban on the amount of fast food units in an area.
A ban on small shops near kids schools for sweets.
A ban on the way unhealthy foods are promoted.
Also the way stop smoking Eli has been promoted - e.g speak to your pharmacist/go/nurse today about stop smoking help.
Why not speak to your pharmacist for nutritional advice/diet advice etc.
So many products appear to be healthy also and aren’t, im thinking certain breakfast cereals for example. Policy could be an excellent way to protect people from this.
This isn’t fat shaming it’s just policy. But it has worked with smoking so I think why obesity? But it’s not labelling individuals so it’s not ‘shaming’ anyone.
It’s about the government saying enough is enough we want people to be healthier and love longer and to reduce the strain on the nhs. To do this we need to make it easier for people to make healthy choices.

Amlen why would home economics classes be a problem for feminists? Surely these skills should be taught to both sexes.

I do think there is a lack of basic cooking skills among many young people - if you don’t see your parents cooking, or if they’re not very good at it, or the household situation makes it difficult, then you won’t learn. What is easy for some of us (boil an egg, make soup, use up leftovers in a tasty way) isn’t easy for everyone.

Personally, one or two plus-sized models make very little difference and have little influence. The sheer amount of incredibly slender (and often airbrushed) presenters/actor/models/you-tubers are still enough to make young people feel bad enough about themselves without any further kind of shaming.

Absolutely this, and add to this Barbie and the Disney princesses. Did you ever see an overweight Disney princess? Cinderella is always slim and gorgeous whereas the Ugly Sisters are of course overweight.

It leads to girls thinking that they're fat when they're not at all. My DDs talk about having a tummy when there's literally nothing on them. 

"If it's medically relevant then yes talk about it, but otherwise don't."

And here we have it. A poster who complains about her GP mentioning her weight. The GP is only allowed to talk about in the way the poster wants.

@Gwenhwyfar read my post. My weight was not medically relevant when I dislocated my finger, that is what I was saying. Yes absolutely discuss it if we are talking about blood pressure or something that is actually impacted by weight, but you know fat people do sometimes go in for things that aren't weight related (gasp)

Fine gwen, but that one poster is just one among many who said the complete opposite; it’s fine for the gp to mention weight if it’s a genuine concern.

Obviously that isn’t fat shaming. A GP who plain dislikes fatties might fat shame though. They exist, believe me. I’m not fat btw, I’m a healthy weight. But, I know A LOT of doctors through my personal life and I have come across a few who are fat shamers in their down time. I’d like to think that doesn’t spill over into their work, but I doubt it.

There is a culture of fat shaming in this country. And I mean genuine shaming. A primary teacher I know once said, with genuine venom in her voice; “there is NOTHING more DISGUSTING than a fat person eating a burger in public”.

I know, gwen, you want to make it that people can’t stand to be told politely and with genuine concern that their weight is a problem. And you’re right. It can’t be good to hear. But I just don’t believe you when you say that a lot of fat people instantly cry “fat shaming” at the mere mention of their weight. That simply isn’t true.

Fat shaming exists and it massively minimises it to say that any mention of weight is fat shaming. So anyone, fat or not, saying that is just wrong.

Yes fat shame away. I can think of nothing better I would have liked to happen to me when having cancer treatment and the steroids they gave me ballooning me.
I felt so self conscious I found it hard to go out and try living a normal life.
But it's ok because "fat" people on steroid medication could always just slap themselves and be thankful that others are judt trying to save people from obesity related illnesses.
Have you ever heard the expression of don't judge a book by its cover??
You can't actually know anything by just looking at someone. This thread just proves I was right to feel self conscious- there were people out there judging me on my appearance all along!!

Yanbu op.....and unpleasant. There is enough fear around food as it is. I think we should celebrate diversity. A person's health is their own business to a certain extent. People know smoking will kill them but they do it as they like it...same reason why people eat chocolate and cake.
You can be thin and have fatty organs.

Yabu I mean

Yabvu even!

CartWheelCath .

I hope you know most people are kinder and more civilised than the op. I don’t judge people for being fat. I massively judge people who fat shame* though. Anyone who does it IRL is instantly not my friend.

*DISCLAIMER: fat shaming does not mean mentioning someone’s weight; it means shaming them. The clue is in the word “shaming” !

Ridiculous idea but there are plenty of things that could be done to counter the obesity problem if funds were available some off the top of my head:

1. Education - make cooking (proper meals not just flapjacks & cakes) & healthy lifestyle part of our curriculum; Improve school meals; cooking lessons for young mums;
2. Offer Therapy
3. Exercise- increase amount & variety in schools, GPs to prescribe gym memberships, make local council leisure facilities cheaper (£15 for a family swim near me - I don't think so!)
4. Tax on ALL junk food

The reason the anti-smoking campaigns have worked is because it took the industry as a whole to task, not individual smokers. It started out with banning Big Tabacco from advertising, then it made Big Tabacco pay higher taxes, then it made Big Tabacco put warnings on packets, etc etc etc. Hitting the individual smokers came decades after the industry was held responsible.

The same needs to be done with the food and diet industry. Over 60% of the population isn't overweight because we've all suddenly lost our will power, over 60% of the population is overweight because food companies have replaced quality ingredients with sugar and corn syrup. It's because the food industry has capitalized on overworked parents with no time. It's because the diet industry sells quick fix/restriction diets that actually end up hurting people and making people more obese in the long run.

Fat shaming isn't going to work because it implies that the fault is entirely with the individual, which is not true of obesity anymore than it is of smoking. The industry needs to be held accountable, and then individuals. As long as we are telling people to lose weight without actually changing the environment in which the weight gain occurred, we are fighting a losing battle.

Also what would the optimum size be before we start shaming...12/14/16? Someone can be a healthy size 18 and an unhealthy size 6.
This country is fucked when it comes to food...I don't know any women who eat normally...me included.

Thank You OhDoGrowUp.

I do actually realise not everyone thinks like the OP. I really wanted to put a point across. None of us know why someone is the size they are. Whether they are tiny or huge.
There are lots of reasons why people are the size they are. Illness mental and physical - making people bigger and smaller. Yes there will be people that are bigger simply because they eat too much. But the things you cannot really tell.
None of us know why our larger colleague is that size. We don't know if it's because they just beat roo much or are on medication or it's the result of some mental illness. Another expression " No one knows what goes on behind closed doors"!

As someone up thread said kindness is what is needed more. Less judgement and less shaming.

Why not speak to your pharmacist for nutritional advice/diet advice etc.

Because they're not a nutritionist and/or dietician

It’s about the government saying enough is enough we want people to be healthier and love longer and to reduce the strain on the nhs. To do this we need to make it easier for people to make healthy choices.

They don't, though, because we're now learning that you can be healthy and live longer and we're now looking at a huge crisis in social care because no matter what, you can't escape age-related conditions and particularly, dementia for many. It can be a bit like drinking from a poisoned chalice.

@Kalinkafoxtrot45 on feminists it's the whole association of women being confined to the home to cook.

But I agree with your point, cooking is something everyone should know how.

@donttalkatonce neither is a gp or practice nurse a nutritionist/dietician.
Yet I’m still sure with some training they can give out lifestyle advice
Neither is a dentist a nutritionist but they will give advice on diet relating to keeping your teeth healthy.

Pharmacists come into contact with people on repeat prescriptions for things like diabetes meds so often, and they may be responsible for some medication reviews. They are in an ideal position to provide health promotion information. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a pharmacist, a healthcare assistant/dispenser with suitable training probably could.

What’s to say gps and pharmacists couldn’t also make referrals for community exercises classes, which I think the government could heavily subsidise.

Cheap, easy, home made recipies for people to take away from places like pharmacies, gp surgeries etc.
So many people can’t cook healthily and cheaply and sadly so much cheap food is unhealthy.

As are gyms and exercise classes expensive and just out of reach for so many in society.

I don’t see how pushing healthy diet and exercise in this way using pharmacies, gp surgeries and community centres, in the same way as stop smoking has been pushed could do any harm.
But it would also need to be driven by government policy that will provide funding for the initiatives. And that would be costly and the savings wouldn’t be seen for years.

But what’s the alternative keep going the way we are going, becoming bigger and less healthy, with soaring rates of diabetes and other obesity related complications.
With stressed out gps trying to guide people in their seven minute appointment that they have attended for something else, into having a healthy lifestyle. Only for it to fall on deaf ears and for them to be accused of ‘fat shaming’.

The government should back up health staff by providing resources to support people, and minimising exposure to unhealthy products. Just like they have with smoking.

gps trying to guide people in their seven minute appointment that they have attended for something else, into having a healthy lifestyle

As has been established by most people on here. This^^ isn’t fat shaming.

To call it fat shaming is so unhelpful, as then people think genuine fat shaming doesn’t exist. When it absolutely does.

I know it isn’t fat shaming. I said gps can be accused of it if they bring up someone’s weight.
The difficulty is gps are told to address people’s weight with them if it appears to be an issue.
If someone attends the gp they want the issue they presented with addressed. They don’t want a squished in lecture about their weight, with no real follow up support to help them.

So if there were better government policies, and better actual funded initiatives to educate people and give them practical support also, gps wouldn’t be lumped with trying to address someone’s weight in an appointment they have attended for their sore finger, with no practical support to follow it up.
People who are overweight may feel less defensive and more supported.
And if it’s an overall government initiative, it’s not shaming anyone. Reducing exposure to fast foods, promoting healthier foods, and providing a free exercise class, is no different to banning smoking in public places and offering free quit smoking support.

I don’t see how pushing healthy diet and exercise in this way using pharmacies, gp surgeries and community centres, in the same way as stop smoking has been pushed could do any harm.
But it would also need to be driven by government policy that will provide funding for the initiatives. And that would be costly and the savings wouldn’t be seen for years.

Depends how you do it - if I knew I was going to get yet another fucking lecture every time I went into the pharmacist's for something completely unrelated, I'd avoid the pharmacist.

If, OTOH, personal and individualised care and support were on offer, I'd bite their hands off. Much of the current 'care and support' involves HCPs barking at you to eat less and move more, which is both unhelpful and, in some cases, inaccurate. Those 'deaf ears' you talk about are not deaf, they're worn down and have given up because current approaches do not work. No obese person is oblivious to their condition, take it from me.

Funding for evidence-based approaches and interventions is thin on the ground and unlikely to get better in the short to medium term. Since obese women currently have a 0.8% chance of keeping weight off long-term, unless money is spent now, the obesity rates are unlikely to change for the better.

" And here we have it. A poster who complains about her GP mentioning her weight. The GP is only allowed to talk about in the way the poster wants."

Please tell us how someone's weight is related to a dislocated finger?