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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Fatshaming

647 replies

travelinterest · 12/10/2018 08:59

After a conversation with friends, and with obesity (especially in young people) becoming a bigger crisis than smoking in our society, am I unreasonable to think that as we villanise smoking and drinking, should we fat shame more to encourage people to change their lifestyles. It's certainly worked with reducing smoking rates. Don't attack me (I've lost 2 stone). Just wondering why we target smoking more than fast food?

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 20/10/2018 15:41

Oh was it, sorry, but totally agree it's different for every One and it can be linked to mental health.

MuddlingMackem · 20/10/2018 15:53

Fair enough, I'll amend what I said to be 'many people' rather than most people. I hit post instead of preview so didn't get a chance to refine it.

But in previous threads about obesity many people have said that being overweight is due to psychological reasons, not just being greedy, or too busy, or not bothered to change things, and people in that situation do need appropriate help and support.

Bluntness100 · 20/10/2018 15:55

Agree, they do say that, but on many of the Weight loss threads you will also see many people saying yup I've just not focused on it for x reason, kids, work, life, and it's crept up and now I want to deal with it. And deal with it they do.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:28

"What most people describe as "fat shaming" is facts that people don't like"

Yes. I've been told off just for talking about vanity sizing on here.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:29

"Well when someone pointed out how large (curvy) my shock horror size 14 (old size) sister was she took action. An action which led to anorexia and bulimia. She may now be a size 8 to 10 but has brittle bones and rotten teeth and her diet is worse than mine.
So no, fat shaming is not the answer."

Anorexia is a very serious mental illness isn't it? I don't think it's fair to point out one comment from someone as being to blame for such a serious illness.

TheStoic · 21/10/2018 11:31

Anorexia is a very serious mental illness isn't it? I don't think it's fair to point out one comment from someone as being to blame for such a serious illness.

Many people who have suffered through anorexia or bulimia can point to one comment or event that triggered their eating disorder.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:32

"Would you try and shame someone out of depression, tell them to snap out of it? "

Telling someone to snap out of a depression is actually minimising it rather than acknowledging it, the opposite of what we're talking about.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:36

"You can soft soap people or you can help them improve their lives. I know what option I think is better"

Depends on the person though. Some will respond well to a direct approach, others need a softer approach.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:42

"Anorexia is a very serious mental illness isn't it? I don't think it's fair to point out one comment from someone as being to blame for such a serious illness.

Many people who have suffered through anorexia or bulimia can point to one comment or event that triggered their eating disorder."

Triggered is different to CAUSED though isn't it? I find it hard to believe that these people weren't troubled before they developed anorexia.

You could meet a recovering alcoholic on a bad day and say something that upsets them and drives them back to drink. You couldn't be the cause of their alcoholism.

TheStoic · 21/10/2018 11:45

Triggered is different to CAUSED though isn't it? I find it hard to believe that these people weren't troubled before they developed anorexia.

Well, if you can tell us what causes eating disorders, please do. You’d be the first person able to do so.

GetOrfMyBin · 21/10/2018 11:48

Some of you are really spiteful aren’t you?

I’m fat. I know I’m fat. You don’t know how I got to where I am. You don’t know what I am/I’m not doing to address this. Making a comment to me about my weight or how I look out of nowhere is uncalled for. I don’t understand the mindset of people who want to be nasty to people just because. You may think you’re just telling the truth, but how would you like it if a stranger shouted/came up to you and made comments about you just because they wanted to? I’m sure that in other circumstances you’d call that bullying.

MadeleineMaxwell · 21/10/2018 11:54

It's a long read, but an illuminating one: Everything you know about obesity is wrong

In a 2013 journal article, bioethicist Daniel Callahan argued for more stigma against fat people. “People don’t realize that they are obese or if they do realize it, it’s not enough to stir them to do anything about it,” he tells me. Shame helped him kick his cigarette habit, he argues, so it should work for obesity too.

This belief is cartoonishly out of step with a generation of research into obesity and human behavior. As one of the (many) stigma researchers who responded to Callahan’s article pointed out, shaming smokers and drug users with D.A.R.E.-style “just say no” messages may have actually increased substance abuse by making addicts less likely to bring up their habit with their doctors and family members.

Plus, rather obviously, smoking is a behavior; being fat is not. Jody Dushay, an endocrinologist and obesity specialist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, says most of her patients have tried dozens of diets and have lost and regained hundreds of pounds before they come to her. Telling them to try again, but in harsher terms, only sets them up to fail and then blame themselves.

And...

The medical benefits of this approach—being nicer to her patients than they are to themselves, is how Sogg describes it—are unimpeachable. In 2017, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, the expert panel that decides which treatments should be offered for free under Obamacare, found that the decisive factor in obesity care was not the diet patients went on, but how much attention and support they received while they were on it. Participants who got more than 12 sessions with a dietician saw significant reductions in their rates of prediabetes and cardiovascular risk. Those who got less personalized care showed almost no improvement at all.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:55

"Well, if you can tell us what causes eating disorders, please do. You’d be the first person able to do so."

Therapists working with anorexics have made suggestions though haven't they? I won't post them here in case they upset people, but you can google them.

I certainly don't think you can blame people for single flippant comment.

TheStoic · 21/10/2018 11:57

Therapists working with anorexics have made suggestions though haven't they? I won't post them here in case they upset people, but you can google them.

You don’t seem to be overly concerned about upsetting people. Why stop now? You can’t post them because you don’t know them. If you did, you’d know that ‘fat shaming’ would be near the top of the list.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 11:57

"how would you like it if a stranger shouted/came up to you and made comments about you just because they wanted to? I’m sure that in other circumstances you’d call that bullying."

I don't think anyone is advocating that. What some of us are arguing for is stopping the whole normalisation/denial of the problem within society in general. Many overweight people have said that their doctor mentioning it is 'fat shaming' or someone talking about vanity sizing or actually any talking about the problem at all is 'shaming'.
I don't think anyone seriously thinks going around calling people names is going to help anyone.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 12:01

TheStoic - the example given on the thread of 'fat shaming' was ONE person calling someone 'curvy' which isn't even an insult. I don't believe just one incident like that can cause an otherwise completely mentally healthy individual to become anorexic.

I do know what a therapist told me he thought was the cause in most of the people he saw. Of course, I know because he told me, but I'm not going to post it here because it might upset people who don't think it was the cause for them or whatever.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 12:02

"You don’t seem to be overly concerned about upsetting people. "

And what is that based on?

DaphneDiligaf · 21/10/2018 12:12

*^^*Mommy03

**please read this my daughter aged 11 was put on steroids as her body failled her and started to attack itself we nearly lost her she was injected and drip fed steroids then was put on high does oral tablets for the last 3 years she has put on weight side effect of steroids she beats herself up enough without nasty jibes from strangers you dont know everyones story so should keep ur opions to yourself !

So I assume no one would fat shame this poor girl? But how would you know?

TombStonebake · 21/10/2018 13:08

I don't think anyone seriously thinks going around calling people names is going to help anyone.

I think this is where this discussion gets confusing, because “fat shaming” to me is exactly this^^. If the op meant something else she shouldn’t have said “fat shaming” should she?

Having a healthy discussion about the obesity problem we currently have in this country is not “fat shaming”.

GetOrfMyBin · 21/10/2018 13:20

Gwenhwyfar - I’m sorry but from some of the comments on here it sounds like people would be happy to do exactly that.

Like I said I’m fat myself but I don’t necessarily agree with glamourising being fat (same goes with having models who are extremely skinny. By this I mean the ones who look unwell). Someone did make a good point though that maybe there are people out there who are bigger than Tess Halliday and they may get a bit of motivation by seeing her. Surely this is a good thing? Might help them go down a bit more? I don’t think anyone is particularly going to look at Tess and say ‘Hey, I think it’s an amazing idea to pile on the pounds so I can look exactly like her!’. The thing that people like Tess and others have that people may admire is that the exude confidence. Being overweight is hard enough and I think that people who are overweight need to try and get a bit of that confidence, maybe feel a bit confident in their own skin to help push them forward. That doesn’t mean we necessarily want to stay there. All fat shaming is going to do is push people backwards. Christ, I’ve had sniggers from people when I’ve gone swimming or to the gym and I can tell you now all that does is make me not want to go back there.

LikeIcare · 21/10/2018 13:26

Lots of people consider 'fatshaming' to be acknowledging/commenting in any way that the person is very overweight; even HCPs tasked to give advice around weight.

That isn't fatshaming to me but it's frequently suggested that it is on MN.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 13:29

"Having a healthy discussion about the obesity problem we currently have in this country is not “fat shaming”."

But some people think it is. Things I've seen people claim would be 'shaming' include doctors talking about their weight, the BMI showing they're overweight, talk about vanity sizing in dress sizes, talk about not wanting to glamorise plus size clothes and models. Some of them get angry when you point out that Marilyn Monroe was really not a modern size 14.
For some people just refusing to take part in their denial is 'shaming'.
Look at the recent thread where someone argues she doesn't need to get down the a healthy weight, because BMI is 'wrong'.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/10/2018 13:32

"I don’t think anyone is particularly going to look at Tess and say ‘Hey, I think it’s an amazing idea to pile on the pounds so I can look exactly like her!’. "

I think they might actually if they find that easier than getting to a healthy weight.

"All fat shaming is going to do is push people backwards. Christ, I’ve had sniggers from people when I’ve gone swimming or to the gym and I can tell you now all that does is make me not want to go back there."

I don't approve of people being nasty like that. I also don't approve of all this 'Oh you're not fat, you're perfect', which I hear all the time or the pushing of junk food on people.

Tomatoesrock · 21/10/2018 13:35

Sorry to butt in regarding anorexic. I have had experience with anorexic and meet others in the same situation, Anorexic is very rarely if ever to do with loosing weight. For me it was about control when other parts of my life were out of control. I was always slim but not desperately thin, at 5.5 stone I was desperately thin. I didn't need to be force feed just some CBT. It was many years ago. Like a different person.

I think if you comment on someone overweight it is seen as spiteful even if it is with concern. It is a sensitive subject. Though it needs to be tackled especially with DC.

mooncuplanding · 21/10/2018 13:41

Obesity is not a mental health issue or a psychological issue.

A calorie is not a calorie

The low fat dietary advice sets people up to fail.

A challenge for the Calorie folk is to switch all your low fat crappy calories to high fat food, such as fatty meat, butter, avocado, veg sautéd in butter. But NO potatoes, sugar, refined carbs, fruit, bread.

So do exactly the same calories you are doing right now, but go high fat low carb.

See what happens to your hunger.

Do it for a month.

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