to stop shopping at M and S for selling hijabs for young girls

[worstmotherintheworld]

So M and S have started to sell hijabs as part of their school uniform range...aimed at primary school children. One reviewer helpfully suggests getting the small one for a 4 year old.

I have been shopping at Marks all my adult life and have remained a faithful customer despite some dodgy clothes of late and the uninspirational Sparks card, but I think this is going to be the last straw for me.

What I do think we should be getting out there is a very firm message targeted at Muslim men that uncovered women and women doing other haram things like drinking are not fair game and asking for it. It’s something all men need to know, but it needs targeting at Muslim men because there seems problems getting that group to internalise the message.

And yet the vast majority of rapists and paedophiles in this country are white men.

So please don't say Muslim men specifically need to be targeted with this message.

It's not me who thinks in this binary way, but sadly a lot of people do.

Ermmm you are the one that said it...

I was illustrating the thoughts of people in our society who think like that.

Look at the people defending a nun's right to wear a habit but think a woman wearing the hijab is oppressed.

Islam does not encourage nor obligate a young Muslim girl to wear hijab. Even in places that are conservative like Saudi Arabia, young girls are very very rarely seen wearing hijab.

If patents choose to allow their children to wear hijab that's their choice. I personally world if my child wanted to. Because if she wants to wear it now, she's quite likely to want to wear it in teens, and hence the transition then will be much easier for her if she is already used to wearing it sometimes. But again, as a parent, I will leave that choice to her. And whilst my daughter may choose to wear hijab from puberty as part of modesty, she certainly won't be wearing it in childhood for that reason. Hijab is worn for different reasons (many don't even wear it for modesty), so really it isn't fair to put the sexualisation spin on it.

Has anyone actually explained the basic thinking behind the wearing of the hijab yet?

In a religious context, I understood it to be that the sight of a woman's hair might fill a man with lustful thoughts? In a cultural one, it is to do with keeping the hair clean in dusty/sandy environments? Happy to be told that I'm wrong.

Neither of those would apply to girls of primary or secondary school age in this country, and implying that the hair of a child barely out of nappies could be a turn on is sick in the extreme. It is outrageous that this could be defended by anyone of sound mind.

The wearing of it by pubescent girls or even grown women, to convey that men cannot be held responsible for their sexual urges, but females are and must hide away parts of themselves in case a male can't control himself, is an outrage.

There should be no place for the hijab in schools, and I would extend that to all religious head pieces in the same way that it is unacceptable for non religious head coverings to be worn.

Anyone refusing to send their child to school without wearing it should be treated the same as any other parent who doesn't send their child to school.

I've heard a lot of Muslims say that they don't wear it with the shaming ,modest ,but old principles that have been forced upon women but now is taking her hijab and choice back and wear it more as cultural dress not cover for modesty not to de sex lies themselves against men unrelated to them but they have taken it back and it is just like a sari they want to wear it as part of a dress not to coveror to be ashamed but just part of a cultural dress that was worn many times before men started forcing it on women because of the reasons people talk about

I mean I would rather the money go to a local business making them rather thwn M&S but otherwise it's great. It's called diversity & inclusion dear.

And many I've heard say it's the white or non Muslim that push this old view sickened and sexual slant onto it when the woman have moved on.some haven't but many more have

@MadMum101

That's not the reason why hijab is worn - it is a common misconception. If that was the reason, then the face is more alluring than hair. The reason is simply because there are different rules and behaviour that muslim men and women must adhere to when in public, and one of which is for women to cover their hair (and men have to for example wear loose clothing & their trousers must be above their ankles). So that's the reason - it is a commandment from God, that we don't full know the reason for but we do it because we believe in him. This is understandbly a very alien concept to those that don't believe, & therefore struggle to grasp it.

MadMum101

Here is the Muslim woman who wears hijab explaining why she does on her 'I'm a Muslim, ask me anything' thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3293323-Im-a-Muslim-ask-me-anything

do you cover your head?

"Yes I cover my head when I am in public smile If I was being really honest, I would admit that it makes my life alot of easier on some mornings when I am rushing off to work and got a tonne of other stuff to do. It's nice not to have to worry about blow drying my hair perfectly (I still haven't quite mastered it yet properly - I'm more of a straightener girl). I also have different material scarves for winter and summer, and I've worn it since young, so to be honest, apart from making sure it is clean and ironed, I don't think about it much."

Do you cover your face?
"I don't. However, I have friends who do, and I know they do it solely for God, to please him."

Actually, SadEgg's explanation is better!

A pubesant girl not wearing a hijab to school could sort of be viewed as in western culture as sending your DD to school wearing little to nothing. It’s a cultural practise and whilst I may not agree with it myself, I think it’s important to respect diversity of cultures just as much as anything.
It can be a fashion choice, convinience, religious, cultural, preference or forced.
Men (though not to the same extent) may wear long robes to give them a shapeless appearance for the sake of modesty.
There is also the idea that the hijab promotes people to view a young lady for what she has to offer on a deeper level than aesthetically. A head scarf shouldn’t be needed for this though I’m not implying that.
I also think though, that where make up and heels should be discouraged because they are not good for your feet, spine and skin esp in young girls, girls should be able to wear bikinis at any age or you are saying the same thing surely- that young girls should cover up to protect modesty and not to sexualise them?
I think women and girls should be able to wear whatever they want. If a four year old wants to wear a bikini or a hijab I don’t really see the problem. A parent of any culture could be forcing a child into any amount of clothing that could be seen as inappropriate for any reason but I don’t think it’s fair to assume this is the case.
FWIW.

And yet the vast majority of rapists and paedophiles in this country are white men. stats?

girls aged 6 being raped at school? sorry I don't really believe this.

It is indeed an alien concept SadEgg to blindly follow rules which you don't know the reason for. Not a good thing to model to children surely? It would be more understandable if the head covering rule applied to men as well?

Havaina even more reason it shouldn't be acceptable in schools then, if it's due to not being arsed to do hair, in the same way students are not allowed to wear hoodies/baseball caps?

But thats obviously all a crock. The real reason is unacceptable which is why it's not admitted.

dawnacorns

From the Independent:

'nearly 90 per cent of those convicted and on the sex offenders register are white men'

www.independent.co.uk/voices/newcastle-grooming-scandal-exploitation-victims-sarah-champion-race-a7890106.html

Whose post are you referring to re the 6yo? It would help you quoted posters rather than misattributing posts to me.

MadMum101

The point is MadMum is that Muslim wear the hijab for a variety of reasons, most of whom say they wear it to be closer to God. It's their choice and you don't get to dictate what is a good and what is an unacceptable reason for wearing it.

In terms of young girls wearing the hijab, I guess if their family's or community's culture is to wear it, then i suppose it makes sense to start young. It means they get used to it and, since it is normally worn when from the girl starts her periods, it preserves her privacy by not having to effectively announce to the world when this happens!

Girls often feel a bit self conscious when they start their periods or start puberty so having to suddenly wear something that shows this, and that may add another layer of self consciousness (because unfortunately lots of people in the UK may judge or look down on a woman in a hijab) must be very hard.

It would help you quoted posters rather than misattributing posts to me. I didn't

Well that makes sense Havaina seeing as the population of the UK is 82% white.

I wonder how many Muslim girls and women actually report rape and sexual assault within their own communities though.

dawn you quoted one of my posts and then responded with the 6yo comment too, which implies you were responding to me.

MadMum

My point is that if 90% of rapists are white, why would you only target Muslim men with anti-rape messages? It comes back to the 'brown people committing crimes is worse than white people committing crimes' thinking that many people have.

And you only have to read the Relationships thread to see that not reporting rape is problem spanning all communities.

@Cloudly I agree with everything you have said and @Racecardriver with all due respect people are taking advice from you about Islam on this thread please don't speak like you know as you have no clue about religion only cultural perspectives

There are almost 2 billion Muslims in the world so it isnt a surprise if they'd think differently, have different reasons for what they do, and don't always understand each other's views.

Wearing hijab is either a political statement or to stop men looking at the woman's hair and becoming aroused. To me, it is fine if adults want to make political statements with their clothing, but not fine for children to either be politicised or to be seen as potential targets for arousal. Adults can wear what they want in my opinion, but children shouldn't be forced to make a clothing choice that makes them stand out from their peers so much when they are too young to make the choice and when there is no need for them to do so due to the purpose of the clothing.

Oh I love a good mumsnet virtue signalling, aren’t I so liberal and inclusive thread!