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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Utter snobbery

262 replies

ScattyPenny · 11/10/2018 17:17

This may be old news and I apologise if it's been done to death already. I know it's not a new thing.

My friend has a daughter who has just started at a prestigious Russell group uni. My son is at a regular uni.

My friend showed me pictures of her daughter wearing a T-Shirt on a night out bearing the slogan 'Your Dad works for my Dad'. It was for a student night out in which students from the local 'poly' and the 'proper' university were attending. Obviously it was an antagonistic slur on those attending the 'lower rated' university.

I'm from a working class background and struggled to get to university and I'm very proud of my achievements and of my son having got to where he is. I was the first in my family ever to get a degree and I went to a new university (old poly). I went to a state school and my parents worked hard but never in well-paid jobs.

AIBU to think that this smacks of class snobbery?

Many kids at decent universities will have got there through hard work and determination but many will have had the benefits of private education, middle class values and educated (and supportive) parents.

Personally I think it stinks. My friend however thought it was funny.

Sad as it sounds, the slogan probably rings true for many of the students. However, it must seem like a kick in the face in an 'I've got somewhere you'll get because you're poor' kind of way.

Sorry...just needed to vent.

OP posts:
MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 11/10/2018 20:31

I’m middle class OP and I find that comment rude and crass.
It wouod make me think that whoever is wearing that slogan is arrogant and needs to be brought back down the earth.

ScattyPenny · 11/10/2018 20:35

I don't think anyone said that RG unis are mostly full of privately educated DC. I certainly did not say that. However, f you look at the statistics, the higher the status of the uni, the higher proportion of DCs from middle class backgrounds.

The statistics show that educational success is 'largely' dependent on higher social status. No generalisations, no stereotypes, no assumptions....just facts.

The vast majority of lawyers, doctors and high status job holders in general are from middle class backgrounds. This is obviously not coincidence.

I'm not, for one second, suggesting that this is always the case, or that it is mutually exclusive. I'm certainly not suggesting that kids from working class families aren't intelligent/hardworking enough to achieve. What I am stating is that the odds are severely stacked against kids from economically deprived families.

Maybe I have got a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I may be being oversensitive. It could just be banter and I should detach myself from it.

I just didn't like it and it's reassuring to hear from others that are on the same page.

OP posts:
sproutsplease · 11/10/2018 20:37

I think it's a really stupid t shirt and wouldnt be expecting any DC of mine to show me a picture of themselves in it and I went to several Russell group universities. I guess I am middle class now but my Glaswegian accent means that I'm usually thought not be. There are state school DC at these unis though OP.

MissConductUS · 11/10/2018 20:37

Racecardriver just out of interest how much would the average family be paying for comprehensive health insurance ? Not in the present market, but if the NHS was downgraded to the absolute bare minimum ?

In the US, which is similar in many ways to what you describe, family medical insurance is about $20k per year (about 15k pounds). Of that the employer typically pays about 75% and the employee pays the rest.

Beeziekn33ze · 11/10/2018 20:39

Edinburgh med school? At least that shirt is celebrating the achievement of the student in getting on the course, not just sneering at someone whom they judge as being socially beneath them.

HotSauceCommittee · 11/10/2018 20:39

Oh well, there’s hope for the daughter; maybe she will grow up in a few years time and cringe at that photo of herself in the dickish tee shirt for all of eternity.
DH and I met at Bradford Uni. We had an amazing time there and he is now Prof at a Russell group uni where he wouldn’t have had the grades to get on their undergraduate course of his subject now. It’s not about you or your lad. Is your boy a nice person? I bet you’d prefer him where he is, how he is. I don’t imagine you’d wish he was championing the same ideology (is that right in this context) as friends daughter even if it meant he was at an RG uni. You’re doing better than good, OP, you and your boy.

wijjy · 11/10/2018 20:40

Is this Newcastle and Northumbria?

Northumbria T-shirts including the infamous

"I'd rather be a poly than a cunt"

itsbritneybiatches · 11/10/2018 20:40

You just need a better slogan love

Like "I only got in here because my parents could pay for me I will fuck it up because I'm thick as fuck"

HotSauceCommittee · 11/10/2018 20:41

And I’d bollock the arse off either of my children if I ever caught them wearing something so nasty, adults it not.

GreenMeerkat · 11/10/2018 20:41

God is that still going on?

This was going on when I was at uni in 2004! Pathetic.

HeronLanyon · 11/10/2018 20:44

What a nasty mean selfish bigoted sentiment. Nasty no matter who or where or why it’s worn. Nasty of the wearer, not funny or clever.

OhTheRoses · 11/10/2018 20:44

It indicates a lack of class. I don't think either of my dc wpuld have donned that tee shirt. They are extremely over privileged, both at or been to Oxbridge. They'd have been horrified actually disgusted. Because they have been nicely brought up and have empathy. Newcastle isn't that great any way.

wentmadinthecountry · 11/10/2018 20:44

They were handing these out at Newcastle a couple of years ago on a Newcastle v Northumbria pub crawl. Very tasteful.

sproutsplease · 11/10/2018 20:47

This is about Newcastle? They are suffering from delusions of grandeur OP, give it no further thought.

CampariSpritz · 11/10/2018 20:55

I’m with HotSauce: I would be horrified & furious if my children ever wore a t-shirt like that. I don’t know how your friend doesn’t feel ashamed.

Graphista · 11/10/2018 20:57

MartaTam I don't believe that it's true that RG universities take a greater proportion of state school pupils.

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/01/attempts-to-widen-uk-university-student-participation-have-stalled

Among the universities with the lowest state school participation were Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Imperial College and St Andrews.

Also the more prestigious universities have been found to be prejudicial toward non-White pupils.

PLUS not all state schools are equal there are some that are doing very well due to location which mean their intake is largely from mc or higher families. Plus in some parts of uk there's still the grammar school system, but unlike in the past currently it's generally better off families that can afford the tuition that frankly seems to be required to have a hope of passing the test.

In addition it's not JUST what school they go to, it's the support/lack of hardship at home.

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

To then publicly display such privilege is beyond crass! It's arrogantly offensive!

Op I couldn't stay friends with either mother or daughter to be honest with that attitude. I have friends from all backgrounds - inc one descended from landed gentry who's family is STILL very wealthy BUT they recognise and acknowledge their privilege and would never act like this - if they did among my friends they'd soon be put straight!

"I’m sure the former poly gives as good as they get" I wonder if the posters saying this would say the same if the slogan were sexist, or racist or homophobic? Why is it ok to have a pop at the poor? Why is it ok in THIS case to defend those in the position of privileged/oppressors? At those who HAVEN'T had the advantages of those at the "better" uni. (I put "better" in quotes cos frankly any institute that claims to be better educated, should know BETTER than to behave or allow their students to behave like this!). The people going to RG uni's are very much the people that THEN go on to become MP's, high up in nhs, civil service (inc dwp and tax credits) and making the ULTIMATE decisions on how the poor are treated! Do we REALLY want them learning right from the beginning at uni that the poor are deserving of their derision? REALLY? I think it's absolutely shocking and the uni AND the pupils should be sanctioned in some way. CERTAINLY such attitudes and behaviour should be STRONGLY discouraged.

BOTH op's friend AND her daughter (min age 18) are old enough to know better!

Not that it would happen (not least because dd is far from privileged) but if my dd ever did anything so naff I'd not be laughing I'd be giving her a bollocking! And reminding her of how lucky she is!

Rebecca not all unis are available to all applicants and that will affect choice for poorer students. It's not as simple as just looking at fees, living costs in the location of the uni, which again is partly affected by the reputation/perceived standard of the uni, the books and equipment that different unis used to different income of students expect students to access also varies greatly. It's like saying "anyone can have afternoon tea at the ritz" they might be able to (just) afford the actual afternoon tea but are they going to be able to also afford a reasonable tip, feel comfortable going there in primark jeans?

"either-ive missed this..or in scotland....its not a thing?" I'm a Scot, I love Scotland but I'm afraid yes some students who attend eg St. Andrews or Glasgow can have a less than acceptable attitude to people who've attended unis perceived to be less prestigious.

"but your attitude that RG universities are full of privileged students who have slid in to their places without making an effort is pretty vile too, OP." That's not what op has said at all!

Havaina - that's a powerful and moving video. Even before the guy said anything I noticed those taking the most steps forward were mostly white males! I'm gonna copy and save link to that for similar discussions hope that's ok.

MaryZM · 11/10/2018 20:57

@ohtheroses I went to Newcastle University and it WAS great. Achieved my honours, made great friends, embraced the city and now working nationwide in Music Therapy. Newcastle Uni is great!

OhTheRoses · 11/10/2018 21:01

I'm glad it was great Maryz and lovely to see you by the way. It's a good uni. But it's not so great it merits that sort of t shirt.

Wanderlusting99 · 11/10/2018 21:03

Another one thinking it's Newcastle/Northumbria - there was a 'your dad works for my dad' song 15 years ago which was kind of a call and response thing from both sides. Honestly never made much of it, I went to one and my brother to the other, both privately educated, one of us followed a more academic degree and the other a more practical degree (neither of which we now use!) - both happy to join in the banter of two unis separated by a few hundred meters and knew the other was at the best one for them.

sue51 · 11/10/2018 21:26

Was it Bristol goading UWE? DD is astonished at the twatishness displayed by some of her fellow students.

southeastdweller · 11/10/2018 21:32

So tacky and unpleasant. If I had a friend like yours then personally I'd distance myself from her or consider ending the friendship. Things like this are why, in some ways, living in Britain can be pretty horrible.

BitOutOfPractice · 11/10/2018 21:38

It doesn't smack of snobbery. It is snobbery and if I thought my DDs wore anything like that or behaved like that I'd have their guts for garters

AgnesBrownsCat · 11/10/2018 21:40

Horrible message and a horrible young lady to walk around wearing it .

ScattyPenny · 11/10/2018 21:48

Thank you for all your comments. As I said, it's reassuring that others agree that it’s outrageous to mock people because they have not 'made the grade' for whatever reason (sadly, usually due to adverse backgrounds). I now feel vindicated in taking offence at this T-shirt.

Havaina, your video was poignant and interesting. It actually made me cry a bit. It's sad that the race is so unequal. The T-shirt is basically the equivalent of people at the finishing line shouting back to those at the starting line shouting 'I won!' when they started off way off ahead in the first place!

Graphista - Your post was both eloquent and informative and I totally agree with you. Why is it acceptable to mock the disadvantaged simply because they 'give as good as they get'? As you say, this bigotry would not be tolerated towards any other group in society. Just because they retaliate doesn't make it right.

I think I will be having a word with my friend about her DD. I now feel I am in a position to question it without feeling like a self-pitying victim who is being a class martyr.

It really makes me wonder what people feel like when they haven't had the opportunities to get any formal qualifications at all because they were alienated from education entirely.

Vive le revolution comrades!! :) x

OP posts:
HeronLanyon · 11/10/2018 21:52

Just bought an eu flag for various reasons - wish I’d also bought a red flag, given your rallying cry ScattyPenny!

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