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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To just leave, despite what emergency services say!

186 replies

beckysamantha91 · 09/10/2018 22:58

Long time lurker, first time poster, however - I'm watching a documentary on Grenfell, everyone who got told to stay to basically died and everyone who ignored it and left survived. It was exactly the same for the 2nd tower in 9/11 - they were all told to stay and those who did ended up dying.

Is it just me who thinks if I am ever in a dangerous situation and told to stay, I'm better off taking my family and running?

I also understand that the emergency service s are doing the best they can, but I still think in those situations where communication (and knowledge) is limited but critical, you're better off taking your chances?

OP posts:
jennymor123 · 14/10/2018 20:05

@beckysamantha91

One of the problems is that in safety situations there is a tendency to want to produce one piece of advice to cover all situations. And sometimes, the advice given might cover most situations but it can never cover them all.

An example: cycle helmets. Most people are strongly of the view that you must wear one; that it will keep you safe, even save your life. Well, it may do so in rare situations. However, the overall truth is that it is slightly safer not to wear a helmet than to wear one. There are many reasons for this, e.g. cycle helmets can cause more damage than they prevent, especially if they're not fitted properly (which they often aren't); they don't usually help protect you if you're travelling more than 15 miles an hour, and so on.

So, what to do where fire's concerned? Well, ideally, you need to do your own research and come to your own views. But that isn't always possible - you don't have all the info or the time or the experience to work everything out. What I think would help is if those in charge of safety matters were more honest about the ambiguities.

I'm sure that the fire service phone operators on the night of Grenfell Tower believed that the stay put policy was the best option. But they probably were never informed about the problems with fire-stopping measures in the Tower. And I'm pretty certain they have never been told about invisible/odourless toxic fumes. And here we are back into politics again . . .

jennymor123 · 16/10/2018 07:55

Thanks. And Humanity for Grenfell is holding a meeting tomorrow night to demand the truth about toxins. Some of us are attending a CHEM Trust event today, which Anna Stec is due to be at. Something tells me that she may just pull out!

jennymor123 · 25/10/2018 09:24

RBKC got a grilling from the residents, rightly so. The head of PHE was introduced, who is apparently going to be at next Monday's meeting to answer questions. He didn't exactly endear himself by telling the residents, "I feel your pain" several times. Yes, but actually getting PHE to do its job would be more useful than 'pain'. It's extraordinary - or perhaps not - the wide range of illnesses all the residents have; and most if not all of them correspond to the health problems associated with flame retardants. It's very clear to everyone that a cover-up is in operation, to conceal just how toxic the Grenfell fire was. In fact, it will have been the most toxic domestic fire in UK history, i.e. because highly toxic flame retardants started getting into furnishings and building materials in the 70s and this is the biggest dwelling fire since then.

HelenaDove · 26/10/2018 15:53

"I feel your pain"

How bloody patronizing.

HelenaDove · 26/10/2018 15:58

www.memorabletv.com/episodes/the-fires-that-foretold-grenfell-airs-tues-30-oct-on-bbc-two/

This 60-minute documentary is the dramatic, haunting story of five fires that foretold the Grenfell disaster, told through the eyes of those directly involved.

This vivid and moving film for BBC Two collates the memories of survivors, the bereaved, fire-fighters, safety experts, and the politicians linked to five intensely fierce fire disasters that preceded Grenfell. This telling collection of interviews and archive footage shows the clear warnings that existed and could have predicted a Grenfell-type inferno happening in Britain.

The programme focuses on three factors: the application of flammable material and cladding to buildings, the ‘Stay Put’ advice given by fire services, the absence of sprinklers – and how they contributed to each of the previous five blazes, sometimes with fatal consequences.

Made over the course of 12 months, the film tells the story of the legislative history of building regulations from 1973 to the present day through five fires. It explores the causes, subsequent investigations and the recommendations that were sent to successive UK governments, ultimately posing the question – if lessons had been learned as a result of tragic repetition of errors over the decades, could Grenfell have been avoided?

The five fires revisited include: Summerland disaster, Douglas, Isle of Man (1973); Knowsley Heights fire, Liverpool (1991); Garnock Court fire, Irvine, N Ayrshire (1999); Harrow Court fire, Stevenage, Herts (2005); and Lakanal House, London (2009).

The documentary is filmed, produced and directed by Jamie Roberts (The Jihadis Next Door, War Child and Manchester: The Night Of The Bomb), with Senior Producer Owen Phillips (Panorama: Fake Sheikh Exposed and Manchester: The Night Of The Bomb) and Executive Produced by five-time Bafta Award-winner Dan Reed (The Paedophile Hunter, 3 Days Of Terror) for Amos Pictures.

Airdate: Tuesday 30 October 2018 from 9.00pm-10.00pm on BBC TWO

HelenaDove · 29/10/2018 14:55

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/29/grenfell-landlord-failed-to-fix-electrical-faults-inquiry-told?CMP=share_btn_tw

A Grenfell Tower survivor who lost 20 friends in the fire and is still living in a hotel room more than 16 months later has told a public inquiry that the council landlord never fixed problems with the building, including electrical faults and broken lifts.

Hamid Whabi, 54, described his desperate escape from his flat on the 16th floor and said that before the fire, lights would turn themselves on and off and plugs would fail to work. A new fridge did not work when it was first plugged in.

He said he reported issues to the tenant management organisation but they were never fixed. The inquiry into the disaster has previously heard that the fire is likely to have started in a fridge on the fourth floor.

Whabi said lights did not always work in the landings and lifts often broke down, meaning there was often a 10- to 15-minute wait for a working lift.

He is still waiting to move into a new home with his 90-year old disabled mother and his son and has been living in an Ibis hotel in west London since the fire in June 2017.
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His son Walid, a student, said in a statement: “I am currently struggling to concentrate and stay focused in general as I feel my head is all over the place.”

It is understood the family have accepted an offer of accommodation but the property is not yet ready.

By the beginning of this month 121 of the 204 households left homeless by the fire had moved into permanent accommodation and 39 had moved into interim homes, leaving 44 yet to be resettled

Whabi told the inquiry that on the night of the fire he was packing for a pilgrimage to Mecca when he heard the crackling of flames outside his kitchen window. It was about 1.15am, 20 minutes after another resident, Belihau Kebede, had dialled 999 about the fire in his flat 12 storeys below.

“I just turned back and went to the kitchen,” Whabi said, his voice breaking. “I saw the fire.” When he opened the window to see what was happening, flames and smoke came into his flat.

“The fire was red,” he added in a written statement. “The smoke was black. It was very thick and strong; it was coming from the window. It smelt like poison … I was coughing, and black things were coming out and some blood.”

He ran down to the 15th floor because he suspected the fire was coming from above. On his way he met a firefighter in difficulty. “He had a mask on but was struggling to breath, sitting on the stairs. He was a mess himself. I could not believe it.

He ran back upstairs where he saw through the smoke Ed Daffarn and Sam Daniels, who also lived on the 16th floor. Daniels told him his father, who was disabled, was “frozen” and could not get out. Whabi said they should get him.

“When I turned to look, I could not see Sam. I could not lift him [Daniels’ father] by myself; I left him. I now know that Sam’s father died in the fire,” he said.

“I started thinking about my friend Yasin El-Wahabi and his family. They were on the 21st floor. I know them well. I found it very hard, I was coughing too much. I forced myself and tried my best to stand up. I did not think I would make it. I put the towel over my face and ran down the stairs. I later found out that all five of them died in the fire.”

He said he ran down through the heat and smoke. “It was very noisy on the stairwell and I could hear people screaming and shouting very loudly.”

Asked whether he wanted to tell the inquiry chairman, Sir Martin Moore-Bick, anything more, Whabi said: “We’re just normal people who just want to get on with their life. We’re a working community, we’re normal people. Everyone wants to get on with our lives.

HelenaDove · 15/11/2018 15:41

twitter.com/CassieMonroe19/status/1063038124060762113

Cassie Monroe
@CassieMonroe19
4h4 hours ago

@HelloSanctuary think an offer of £100 is acceptable for failing to carry out repairs and ignoring complaints,resulting in arson and me losing my home!They don't care my son has bee traumatized by this &we have nothing!
@JohnnyMercerUK @realvoices @LizJ73 @DarrenWinter @chareyt

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