They have no clean drinking water and it’s your fault!

[Neapolitanicecream]

Watched Stacy Dooley “Fashion dirty secret” on BBC last night. Lost sleep over it. Michael Gove is clueless on the poisonings of water for millions of people. It’s a disaster and it’s our fault with buying cheap cotton. We need to do something! Kids are being poisoned 🤢 it made me cry

@BrightLightsAndSound, I agree with all of your points. Responsible consumerism is the way forward. (Also agree that I'm guilty of irresponsible consumerism as well!)

But in reference to this point, "They dont want to use public transport when their car is much easier and quicker," it's also often much cheaper. If we want people to utilize public transit, it needs to be subsidized!

Increasing population: you focus on the birthrate but how much of it is due to increased life expectancy of those already born?

Easy to tell other people not to breed but how many of you would forego life saving treatment for cancer etc and say "No, I won't have treatment that might extend my life for a decade or three as my death at this time is what nature intended, so I'll just slip quietly into the great abyss and leave three decades' worth of the Earth's resources for the next generation"?

No one has mentioned forced sterilization or eugenics as a solution. Personal responsibility is what we are talking about. You can no longer bring 4 children into this world and expect that they will have any sort of future, we just don't have the resources.
We are not talking about standing space on this planet but clean drinking water, food and shelter.
It is also utterly selfish to believe that your genes are more important than anyone else's and you have a right to more children and more resources than anyone else.

The people talking about limiting the number of children allowed - how would this be done without forced abortions / sterilisations.

Someone said it should be quality over quantity - so eugenics then.

The West's growth rate is slowing down. More education for women in deprived countries and access to contraception is a must. It's not selfish if they don't understand or have the means to stop themselves from having multiple children.
There are very few 'large' families in the U.K. and I suspect there will be less In generations to come due to benefit cuts.

Mugglemum If you add ALL the costs of a car in eg. London there is no way that a bus is more expensive. I mean ALL the costs , the repairs, the parking, residents' permits, the petrol, the cost of the car, depreciation, tax, MOT and insurance etc..

Most car owners kid themselves.

Limiting children would be easy - you would get your tubes tied after your first child, men would have the snip on the day their firstborn is born.

"Buy quality, buy classics, but stuff you really love and will wear until it falls apart"

Yep Im sure the two million + people on Universal Credit will be able to do this.

Every time there is a programme like this on TV working class women get criticised. When Dispatches did it the comments on the Twitter hashtag were full of vitriol for women who shop at New Look/ Peacocks Primark etc Its called the cycle of poverty but people who are incapable of critical thinking cant see that.

Then they start on about how you can often find all the gear you need in charity shops. Well yeah if you live in a bigger richer area to start with so a wider range of stuff gets donated to these shops to start with.

Not if you live in a poorer area where donations arent a wide range of stuff and do bear in mind that poorer people are being told to make do and MEND what they have already got.

Its lovely to have principles ....................IF you can afford them.

I'm not having children so I'm keeping my car.

Yup BrightLights That should happen NOW !

Start a petition and raise money for going over there and build some wells.

@ppeatfruit I'd be interested to know how many children you have?

kaytee87, they think if they don’t actually say eugenics, or mandatory sterilization/abortion then it’s fine.

Shatnerswig, you replied to my post referencing forced abortions asking what I suggest instead. So you seem to think the idea has some merit.

@Plump

"Easy to tell other people not to breed but how many of you would forego life saving treatment for cancer etc"

I had a whole thread in Elderly parents about this - mum being "hassled" by the medical profession to lengthen her life. She has finally refused, and I would absolutely do the same. sadly there is a genetic tendency on her side to live very long, even before all these mad medical things came in, so I'm planning to end it long before I get to her age. my uncle lived to 89. it was nothing short of a tragedy.

so yes, there are people out there who will refuse treatment but it is rare. No one makes money out of people refusing treatment I guess....

I watched it too and it really upset me. All of the damage to the local ecosystems, people using that water for cooking and cleaning, the presence of mercury and lead in the water is really shocking. The rates of illness and cancer must be up in theses areas, there are going to be long term implications.

I had never heard of The Aral Sea or how it has shrunk before that it’s partly due to cotton production really shocked me. We are always sold cotton as natural and sustainable.

The one thing that stuck with me throughout is I don’t see how things can change I somehow don’t think Topshop, Primark and Gap are going to produce less fast fashion. The heads of these companies need to take responsibility. They are using factories in 3rd world countries and burying their heads in the sand.

Wtf this thread went to the clappers pretty damn fast!

Globalisation is a double edged sword.

PS I had no idea about this woman or this documentary - I don't do fast fashion or plastic tat - but big up to her for getting this discussed so much on a very well publicised board, and it's heartening to see how many posters mention overpopulation too.

kaytee "The people talking about limiting the number of children allowed - how would this be done without forced abortions / sterilisations."

no, I said tax them more, ask for money for state ed and NHS etc. I never said anything about forcing anyone in a physical way. Financial disincentives are the way to go. Also never understood why council tax isn't charged per person...?

It's irrelevant kaytee If you think it is, I have 3. How many do you have? Not one has a car btw.

Brightlightsandsound, so you want people forcibly sterilized by the state, then? And if the statistically unlikely happens and sterilization doesn’t work on someone and they conceive again, what then? Forced abortion, or state-sponsored child-snatching on behalf of rich infertile people? Gosh, what a world we could live in with police dragging women off for late abortions and hauling hidden babies from their mother’s arms!

@ppeatfruit why didn't you get your tubes tied after your first then?
I only have 1 btw.

@LuvSmallDogs
No, the statistically unlikely is unlikely for a reason. Accidents happen, so you end up having another kid. That wouldn't be a problem.

It was shocking, especially as cotton is touted as being ore eco-friendly but there is no easy solution
Cotton causes environmental problems, so do synthetics. The only solution is to buy clothes that last so reduce our usage but we have a whole generation brought up expecting cheap, fast fashion so it won't be easy. Us old gimmers tend to buy more classic clothes and keep them longer whereas DD and her friends buy stuff at Primark all the time

@Womaningreen you weren't the only one talking about limiting family size.
Universal credit will now only pay for your first 2 children. Let's face it, the families that are having multiple children usually aren't big earners so how will they pay for nhs treatment etc.
The issue with over population of the planet will not be solved by taxing some people in the U.K. We are having less children here now. The issue is in the third world and it needs to be solved with education and contraception.