They have no clean drinking water and it’s your fault!

[Neapolitanicecream]

Watched Stacy Dooley “Fashion dirty secret” on BBC last night. Lost sleep over it. Michael Gove is clueless on the poisonings of water for millions of people. It’s a disaster and it’s our fault with buying cheap cotton. We need to do something! Kids are being poisoned 🤢 it made me cry

I like Stacey Dooley.

She’s not afraid of uncomfortable issues and she makes them accessible to all.

I haven't read the whole thread, but Shatnerswig and Sexykitten2005 you've hit the nail on the head.

Dare I go further and say quality over quantity?

Ex-SIL is expecting her 8th at the age of 40. Is already a grandmother to 6. None of her children have the same father, she's been married twice. None of her grandchildren have the same father. All her daughters have council/social housing and are living the lifestyle they WANT to live on benefits. The girls have always said they're getting a baby and a house ASAP.

None of the children/grandchildren have left school with any sort of qualifications.

I don't want to start a benefits debate here as I claim a benefit for a long-term disease that has meant I'm unable to work - or at least no employer would want to employ me as it would mean putting up with a lot sick days and lost hours in order to cater to my condition.

As well as the climate problem we have that has now been acknowledged, we need to address social issues and the religious pressure to have as many children as possible.

I probably won't be here to see any decent outcome, but I worry for my daughter.

Jesus we have posters advocating for eugenics now

There’s someone (the name escapes me) who has been calling for personal carbon allowances for years. But we don’t listen because we only like ideas that don’t actually impact our lives.

There is still a stigma - from some quarters - attached to having an only child. Reading any post on MN about having an only child makes this utterly apparent.

Totally agree. We are so far away from framing the discussion re: children with an eye towards the ticking time bomb. Liberals haven't even considered the possibility that all the child-related benefits that they propose are an economic incentive for child-bearing.

@placemats Indeed. But have you noticed how the population increase sped up enormously once the pill came along and that, generally, contraception became more readily available?

@luvsmall But nothing is going to change because the vast majority of people continue to put their own needs ahead of the greater good. People simply refuse to talk about it. I am not for one moment saying we should go out and sterilise millions of people but there isn't even a debate going on about population control when it is so obviously the main issue for all of this. As a PP mentioned, in France you get tax benefits for having MORE kids. This is sheer madness and we should be incentivising people to have fewer children in tandem with improving contraception education and availability in developing countries. We spend SO much time about doing things for families but nothing for those who actually do far less harm by not procreating. And perhaps, just perhaps, we should have stopped and thought about whether IVF should have even happened at all. Just because we CAN do that thing, doesn't mean we SHOULD do that thing.

It's all very well spouting on about human rights if those human rights are what ends up wiping us out (which is probably no more than we deserve; after the damage we've done in a few hundred years compared to). As long as you're happy if that's the case, then fine. It probably won't affect us, so presumably who cares; it's the poor bastards 200 years from now who'll be fucked.

Now, as for your comment about only women's rights being up for grabs, I don't see why that should be the case. In an ideal world, science would come up with some form of implant that could be inserted into every male baby that prevents the production of sperm but which could be removed at a certain age but then reinserted once you've had either one or two children. Once you've had your lot, tough shit. If you marry again, tough shit. Now, that's an imposition on human rights in terms of limitation but it's not stopping your human right to bear children. It's just limiting it for to ensure the population doesn't wipe itself out.

Pie in the sky, possibly, but the problem is not going away, is not going to go away, and people simply refuse to even discuss it. THAT's the point.

Shatner, I think I love you. (sorry).

@kaytee So what is your answer then? I asked earlier but you didn't have one. I'm not saying I have the perfect answer, but people won't even discuss the options and the result of that will be that we do kill this planet, or at the very least, wipe out the human race. As long as you get the numbers of babies you want, who cares about anyone else or the long-term issues it causes.

Thank you OatsBeans I'll do that.

@Womaningreen
I mean in one hand taking away choice from women is something I will never be on board with, but 11 children is ridiculous. It's indefensible really

Many of the countries where this happens are very corrupt, the army and politicians steal as much as they can, which ends up often buying multi £m houses in London.

The U.K. is finally cracking down on unexplained wealth but multi billions have already been laundered through tax havens and into the London property market

Oops is it spelt indefencible? You know what I mean

Do the governments of the countries concerned not shoulder any responsibility? Do they need a white western saviour to mansplain it to them?

Shatners you are absolutely right about population. The male implant you mention would be wonderful , especially if it could be removed only if the person can prove that he is responsible

. Oh and I knew my sister was infertile because she was ill and had her womb removed at age 40 and my brother's partners weren't\aren't interested.

@RedPanda

I think the main thing is to have massive disincentives, so after 1 or 2, no more free education or NHS care etc. I'm not keen to police bodies either. I think there's other ways of handling it.

But have you noticed how the population increase sped up enormously once the pill came along and that, generally, contraception became more readily available?

Shatners

You misunderstand exponential growth. The pill, a woman's job, was only available to those in a relationship, it certainly wasn't available to most women in the USA and definitely most women in countries that were deemed then as 'third world'.

And right now The Mail has a headline how Kate is sporting a recycled dress, as in she wore it once before in public.

It’s irresponsible rubbish like this that fuels the demand for constant consumption.

No you got it right the first time RedPanda

@ShatnersWig where did I say I had an answer?
Eugenics is barbaric though.

Better access to contraception and education for women in third world countries and also developing a proper male contraceptive would go a long way to help and should happen before eugenics, forced abortions or sterilisation though.

Yes Gasp The issue of the scandal of property in central London makes me ill. I get the feeling that Brexit is basically to make GB even more of a money launderers' haven.

I wonder what they think they'll do, when we're all under water, with their piles of money? Go floating off in their gin palaces on the grossly polluted seas?

Ironic to be talking about forced sterilisation when it’s virtually impossible as a woman to get one!

Is population control eugenics though?

Eugenics means controlling so called “undesirable traits” and population control affects all.

I don’t know if that’s an answer and how it might work, but it’s not eugenics.

I can't see who raised the issues of "forced sterilisation" or "eugenics" anyway.

People are outraged but they dont want to do anything.

They have multiple children when the planet is already creaking.
They want their fruit, veg and meat cheap, without thought for what the supply chain must look like for it to be so cheap.
They dont want to cut back on how much they eat and consume (despite a growing weight problem).
They dont want to use public transport when their car is much easier and quicker.
They dont want to buy expensive clothes that will last from companies that behave ethically - they want cheap fashion
They dont want to buy second hand when they can get it just as cheap and next day from Amazon.

Im guilty of all of the above.
But im also not shocked and appalled that our planet is in a state and other people are being abused.

Its the governments job to regulate, but companies pay taxes and provide jobs. Companies are responding to mass demand.

We are the mass demand.