... to be sad at the way Christmas seems to have changed?

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I was brought up to view Christmas as a magical time, but a time above all for giving. Getting together as a family (grandparents cousins, aunts, uncles) because it's one of the few times that the family does get together. Making sure no-one is left out. Learning to enjoy yourself and have a happy time with others even if your home is full of relatives, or you spent an hour on Christmas morning travelling to other relatives who don't make the bread sauce and brandy butter quite as well as your mother.

Nowadays on MN "family" means "me, DH, DC" and Christmas is all about receiving and not giving. "You have a right to spend Christmas in your own home". Everything centres around making it perfect for the children, without any thought of modelling for them the qualities of thinking about other people.

AIBU in thinking this not only makes life more unpleasant for older relatives who are excluded or barely tolerated, but that it also bodes ill for the future, in moving society more towards "it's all about me" and less about taking responsibility as a society for the welfare of all its members?

I like Christmas Day just me and DH.

I remember Christmas was a lot more simple when I was little. A roast turkey dinner with stuffing, potatoes, carrots and spouts and Christmas pudding.
Now it's like a banquet with loads of side dishes and desserts and fancy decorations that cost a fortune.
We got toys from Santa in a pillowcase...and presents for each other under the tree.
We had lunch at 2 pm and then sat together as a family watching Christmas tv.
It's so much different at my kids houses...all day cooking and everyone doing their own thing after lunch and hundreds of pounds spent on toys.
I think people do still get together though?

It's a bit impractical once ones parents and siblings live at various opposite ends of the country, and also have their OH's family to see (and don't always get on) to see everyone. But I do hate the over consumption and consumerism. You make a good point about the giving, I might think about that with the dc.

But my family unit (me, DP and children) is my family.
Years ago women, yes women were obliged to run around after family members who probably treated them horribly (understatement in some cases) because 'Christmas is about FAMILY' was a guilt-loaded stick to hit them with. I'm pleased that now the advice is 'you can say no'. Fuck hosting abusive family members or ones you simply aren't close to just because you're the caring female or because they're older.

How absolutely lovely that you’ve got an un complex family who are happy to all get together and muck in, and who live close enough to do so.
DH’s parents retired abroad. They’d be more than welcome to come over and stay with us for Christmas, but they refuse as they would rather have it their way in their own home. They then complain that we don’t go to them for Christmas, but that would involve leaving my mum entirely on her own for Christmas (my brother died, she is single and she has no other family at all). They say they don’t have room for her to visit too. My dad is remarried and he spends Christmas with his wife and her two children. As I mentioned, my brother is dead. SIL lives abroad and spends it with her parents. As much as we’d absolutely love a ‘big, family Christmas’, we don’t get it.
As for the ‘giving rather than receiving’... definitely. That’s what Christmas is about. Every year we search out lovely presents for the IL’s and make sure we send them abroad in time for Christmas Day. They don’t send anything in return. I think we’re doing our best to keep ‘the spirit of Christmas’ to be honest.

"YABU and slightly weird"

Why on earth would you call someone 'weird' for having an opinion on how Christmas has changed. Maybe you find her view difficult to comprehend, but to call her weird is quite rude and unfair.

People now are more individualistic. It extends to everything. I have seen people on MN justify not going to a good friends wedding because they don't like weddings. The idea that you do things you don't like for the sake of others sometimes, seems to have gone for many.

SoyDora But you are thinking of others as the PILs are welcome to come and you are not leaving your mother on her own. That is fine.

I also think accusing the OP of virtue signalling re selfishness is totally unfair. This is an anonymous forum, and there is no evidence of smugness or 'look how wonderful I am' from the OP. She is simply talking about how the tenor and focus of Christmas is changing and how an element of selfishness is increasingly creeping in - in some cases that might be justified vis a vis toxic relatives or a partner who refused to do their share of the work. But in many cases it's down to a different understanding of what Christmas is about.

Nothing wrong with discussing that, and lots of posters have disagreed politely, either fully or in part, with the OP. I don't see any reason for some of the really rude and hostile replies.

Btw, I also think the 'now we are all so materialistic' idea is a bit off, though of course it depends when you grew up. My parents were immensely better off when we were children than DP and I are now. Unfortunately, post-recession and pre-Brexit, that's true of a lot of people my age. The fashion for home-made Christmas presents (which gets sneered at a lot on MN, I know) is partly out of necessity. I know lots of people who couldn't possibly afford to shower their children with the numbers of gifts they received from their parents. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I think it is naive to think we are all suddenly richie rich with piles of presents whereas back then we had a wooden stick each and were grateful.

lydia - really? You don't think she sounds smug.

Gosh. I guess people really do read things differently. I think she sounds thoroughly sanctimonious, with very little depth of understanding or empathy. If she really wanted to make her point, she'd at least acknowledge that elderly people are not all sweet saintly types (which is fairly patronising in itself), and that some people's families are not like hers.

You sound a bit keen to garner applause for your concern for the elderly, which is slightly ironic given your claim Christmas should be all about selfless giving. If you really were selfless about it, would you need to make a song and dance so everyone knew?

I'm asking the question because it seems to me that things have changed for the worse in the way people view Christmas. I hardly think asking a question and explaining why I'm asking it is "making a song and dance about it".

The answer seems to be a combination of - my experience (and that of my circle of friends when growing up) was out of the ordinary, and that the number of really unpleasant people around is much greater than I realised; that behaviour tolerated 50 years ago is no longer tolerated; that families are now more spread out (so that our travelling 30 mins every second year nowadays is more likely to be one group being expected to travel 2-3 hours every year).

I totally disagree LRD. I think you're reading something into the post that isn't there, and are being quite nasty about the OP.

As the one childless family in our extended families, DH and I are ALWAYS the ones expected to drive here there and everywhere to meet the requests of everyone else so we can see the children, nan, grandad etc. It gets so tiring so this year we're having Christmas just us two and our dogs, if they want to see us, they can visit us for once

and no kid whatsoever thinks the nice bit is carting around to different houses when they could be playing with their toys.

Ah that's crap. My absolute favourite part of Christmas was seeing my extended family. I loved having a big Christmas lunch at my grandparents house with all my uncles present. It was so festive and special. And way, way, way more than that I loved going to my great-grandparents' house in the evening and having their whole extended families and lots of neighbours pile into their tiny house. Having a big sing-song, playing games and eating biscuits and chocolates. It was amazing. I could have a day at home playing with my toys all year long. I could only have that kind of meet up with all my family on Christmas night. It was beyond special.

And it's the same for my DS. After a few hours of playing with his toys in the morning, he's beyond ready to go see his grandparents and uncles. And after a full afternoon there, he's itching to go see his great-grandmother and great-uncles and their families. It's nowhere near as much fun as my great-grandparents house used to be, but it's still clearly thrilling to him to have all these extra people at her house and to have Christmas fun with them. Then he likes to go back to his grandparents' house for a while and extend the day with them and my brothers a bit longer.

Sure I and he got/get gifts throughout the day from extended family. So that does keep it interesting. But the same pile of gifts at home that morning and a day to play with them, without all the fun of actually seeing everybody. That would be dull, dull, dull in comparison.

And yes, I get it. When your whole life is a rush out of the house, taking that time to just chill at home must be lovely. And if you or your child is more introverted there would be so much more joy in not having to be on. But that would have been a really, really boring Christmas to child me and would be now to my DS.

No, but it's the way you asked it.

Lots of value-laden terminology making out that your way was right and anyone else's was wrong, and not much attempt to indicate that you were open to people having different views or values.

Read your OP again, and try to imagine how someone reading that might feel.

lydia - well, we can disagree of course, but I did think her post seemed quite nasty, and clearly, it's hit a nerve with a lot of people who feel she was being insensitive and judgemental.

We always stayed home Christmas Day when I was a child, we often had grandparents over but other than that Christmas Day was low key. The days running up to Christmas involved visiting family, delivering gifts and having a big feast at my grandparents with the rest of the family (aunts, uncles, cousins). All my good memories about Christmas are visiting family, eating quality street and exchanging gifts.

Christmas now just isn’t the same, sometimes we stay at home but most years we go to my dads for dinner. I am a single mum but I’m happy to just stay at home and relax with my dd’s. On Boxing Day we usually drive to the coast for a walk. Most of my family don’t bother too much with Christmas, some people have to work Christmas Day, people don’t get a week off like they used too so there’s less time to do family visits.

LRD
But some posters explained to the OP why her scenario doesn't always work. She is happy with that explanation and has acknowledged it.
But they did so politely and without resorting to insulting and namecalling. I don't think there was any necessity for your quite rude post, and the OP has actually responded to it with grace and dignity.

@MereDintofPandiculation - you are massively U.
The posts here are all about the stress. Families together not because they love each other but because of family pressure or tradition.
Stories of arguments, long-term resentment.
Maybe you had it different. Maybe your memories are full of joy and mishaps that turned to family jokes everybody can laugh about.
But not all of our memories are like that. Mine as a child - we used to go to my not so dear F's Mum and unmarried sisters. It was fun for us kids and extra presents but as the one who was at the centre of the it, it had massively negative undercurrents. It wasn't about wanting to have Christmas together, it was about HAVING to be together, with my not so dear GM having snide remarks at my Mum and her family etc. While I wasn't aware of it as strongly when I was little, I became very much aware of it as I was getting older.
I love my family but I moved countries to be away from all the drama. Two weeks are the maximum time I can be with them, even though I love them to pieces. But my Christmas will be spent with my DH, DD and my two cats. And I am happy about it.

Of course YABU - not everyone’s Christmas is like yours you know I have a bloody awesome Christmas with a very large family, silly songs, massive binges on quality street and we all watch Die Hard and Harry Potter (and home alone!) the present giving is great - I prefer to give than to receive.

Not everyone has a perfect family and for many of us Christmas becomes a battleground with lots of selfish people trying to impose their will or expecting elderly relatives to run themselves ragged, cooking for, cleaning for and housing younger family members with kids.

Also some of us work a lot around Christmas and look forward to a quiet meal with just immediate family. The last thing we feel capable of is running around after everyone cooking for them and exhausting ourselves before going in for a hard shift at work. I love my quiet Christmasses with just my parents and so do they. We each do a bit of the cooking, go to church and spend a bit of time just the three of us before going back to our respective works. We’ve spent years prior to this having to come last in other people’s Christmasses and having to deal with multiple other family members with addiction, personality disorder or just generally twattish behaviour. We are trying to enjoy a few years respite but other family members keep trying to announce that they are coming to spend Christmas with us which basically translates to them coming and staying in our homes, trashing the place, expected to be waited on hand and foot, taking over the TV and us having no place to sit ourselves.

It’s absolutely lovely if you have a very considerate and nice family to have those big Christmasses but hell of your family all have clashing personalities and wishes.

Oh do pack it in LRD. What a load of tripe.

YANBU OP and having read the thread I completely agree with you.

People now are more individualistic. It extends to everything. I have seen people on MN justify not going to a good friends wedding because they don't like weddings. The idea that you do things you don't like for the sake of others sometimes, seems to have gone for many

This.

It isn't just young people or those with children though, that is a red herring, it is everyone. It does extend to everything. It is societal change, a shift that has happened and impacts everyone. I see a lot of selfish behaviour. It may be the result of too much work, pressure and lack of time and maybe not out of choice. Being kind and understanding other people's plights and issues would be a good start.

I could have written the complete reverse of your OP. When I was little, we stayed home on Christmas Day and celebrated with immediate family only. Now, everyone comes to us and we have a full house on the day. The number and value of presents we give each other has barely changed ( apart from inflation etc) and we don’t do anything particularly more lavishly than the way they were done when we were children.

Obviously YOUR Christmas has changed a great deal, but perhaps that’s for you to reflect on rather than assuming everybody else’s has. What would you like to do differently this year?