Children stuck between a rock and a hard place

[sef23]

Recently moved from a small quanit welsh village to the local city (Cardiff). DS (8) & DD (5) both taught welsh first language. 3 of their cousins were in the same school. Grandparents live nearby, and whole family got on well and saw each other daily. Kids were doing good in school.

Decided to move to a more multicultural area and english school, (kids are mixed race) old welsh school had 5/6 ethnic minorities out of 400 kids, but it makes no difference at that age, no bullying or racism at all. Idea was that when they are older they wont feel isolated by race, or any other 'tag'. I grew up in said village, primary was a dream, comprehensive was a nightmare.

Kids have now been crying daily for 5 weeks, they want to go 'home' hate new school. New school is great, highly estyn rated and multicultural and leads to a great secondary (highest rated), faught for 2 years to get them in, in that time they grew on and up in their welsh school more deeply immersed in the welsh language. DS is finding adjustment difficult from education viewpoint as well being taught solely in welsh, tutors and effort from us is helping, but he's still daily saying he wants to go back, as is DD as grandparents and cousins/aunts had more of a hand in their care than us, their parents who were working too much, DH especially so they feel they have been ripped from their 'safe and stable place'. They miss thier cosuins who they think of as siblongs and grandparents immensley.

DD has attended 10 days in 4 weeks , DS is going daily and despite immediately making new friends misses his old friends.

Their old school has agreed to take them back.

Do we stay or go? We dont want to prolong their agony further kids happiness is paramount but so is there future schooling which they will not think about now, also in the city much more things to do - eg swimming, tennis, etc which in the village we cant but have to drive to said city to do.

Is it more important that they are with family, or not? once cousins grow up they all go their separate ways, and their grand parents are in their 70's we want them to spend as much time with them as possible. Weekends we go back, kids dont want to leave. Cousins are out so they dont really get to see them.

Is welsh to english at year 4 too much of an adjustment to make, learning verbs, adjectives, pronounication, spelling etc all over again in english is proving hard, we dont want teachers to think they arent bright as in welsh school they were in top sets.

So confused, any advice would help.

supposed to read 'quaint' welsh village .

How do you mean that the kids are mix race? Have you changed your job situation as well?

It is hard for them to move at this age, but would they be staying in a Welsh only environment there while education otherwise. Could that restrict job prospects latter on.

Sorry not sure how high schools work in Wales. I went to uni in Wales but most people spock English, but I am aware it's different in different parts of Wales.

can I ask why you have chosen english medium in Cardiff when there are fantastic welsh medium schools available ? Have you looked into welsh medium places for them. The change of language accompanied with the move away from family maybe a bit too much. If they are schooled in welsh again it may help them feel more settled and at home

I think you've done the right thing personally. You have good reasons for deciding to make the move and have done it at the best time, they would find it much harder at a later date. In the long term it will be much more isolating for them to grow up in the village and it will be much better for them to go to a better high school.

Kids are adaptable they will settle eventually and you're not so far away that they can't still be close with their extended family perhaps just not quite as much in each other's pockets.

From my own experience, I'd say stick to your decision. You've moved, it's done. Don't let them browbeat you into moving again.

I moved several times when my children were young - it's just something that they have to get used to. They survived and yours will too. In my book, kids don't get to blackmail their parents into changing everything because they don't like where they are.

I'd say, stick to your guns. Stop even thinking about moving back . And don't let the kids get away with refusing to go to school. You are the adult here , and they need to know that you can't be manipulated. Otherwise you'll end up being twisted around their little fingers every time they dislike your decisions.

ct180, we dont see a future in welsh language education no degrees in welsh, books etc novels dont really go past a certain age/area, (eg harry potter is not available in welsh as an extreme lazy example) and the language is limited to wales, they already speak another language through their different heritage so it not really as important to other children who dont speak more than one language, as a huge plus point was that welsh or any language from a young age will open up their ability to learn other languages, and also you feel completely sidelined when you cant help in their schooling as an almost spectator, didnt move for jobs or anything else same jobs, as city is aprox 40 mins away.

We dont really want to wait another week to see if they 'settle' we know they will, but in their hearts and minds they want their old home and we dont want any uncessasary stress on them, DD is normally pulled off DH by 2 teachers in the morning, as she holds onto him for dear life going in, distressing to see daily.

Well, your daughter isn’t going to settle if she’s only attended 50% so far - why is that?

Has the city time created more family time for them with you?

Can you look at Welsh medium school in Cardiff or does it mess up secondary feed?

Have you spoken to school about support for bilingual children, especially ESOL kids?

Sounds like there could be more done to help them settle, first.

OP it sounds like you are wavering you need to be all in. She is not settled because you are allowing her to do 50%. Commit to this and see it through

www.bloomsbury.com/uk/harry-potter-and-the-philosophers-stone-welsh-9781408817674/

There are lots of resources and books available in welsh and also degree courses - however I understand that you no longer wish to school them in welsh as they are already trilingual. However I do possibly feel that you want to move back and the children’s difficulties with settling is now giving you the argument you need to move back ? I would speak to school and ask for more help in settling the children and with the transition to English medium - but the first thing you will need to do is make sure they attend everyday. Every time you allow them to stay home you are breaking the cycle and it’s like the first day all over again. The inconsistency in attendance will be hugely detrimental to them being able to build friendships

ellisandra, she cries hysterically in the morning, refuses breakfast etc wont gret dressed, DH manages to bribe trick her to get her in, we have both laid down the law, daily before resorting to trickery just to get her in, the school have been amazing so far assisted in every way imaginable, she is stubborn.

Personally, I think you should put the children in a Welsh medium primary school. I opted for Welsh language in Cardiff, despite not speaking it myself and have never regretted it; neither have my children who all live in England now and have good jobs. Why can't you choose one of the excellent Welsh primary schools so they have some stability? If you want to transfer to English language, do so when they transfer at KS3. Remember, there is no guarantee that you will get your children into the high rated Estyn school you mention and even if you do, this is no guarantee that they will be happy there.

we dont see a future in welsh language education no degrees in welsh

Surely they'll be learning English too? Why would they have to do a degree in Welsh? Plenty of people do degrees in English having been brought up with other languages.

he's still daily saying he wants to go back, as is DD as grandparents and cousins/aunts had more of a hand in their care than us, their parents who were working too much, DH especially so they feel they have been ripped from their 'safe and stable place

You said you are going back every weekend to where you used to live. I think this might be disruptive and confusing for them. I don't think it's just about going from Welsh medium to English medium. How upset are grandparents/aunts etc? Are they stirring the pot with your DC?

The problem might be that your DD is only attending 50% of the time. As long as that is happening she won't have a hope of settling in.

Is living in the city cutting your commute meaning you have more time together before and after school?

What would the housing situation be if you moved back?

As long as moving back looks like an option they won't settle though, they can't feel stable when they know you might move back if they don't settle (catch 22).

You have to commit one way or the other. Dithering is really bad for the children and will unsettle them in itself.

I think it depends why you moved. If it makes your life as parents easier, by cutting down commutes, providing a more multi-cultural environment, and encouraging their English (not clear if you speak English at home as well), then these are all good reasons to move.

I moved my children at slightly older age and it was awful for the first few weeks, indeed the first few months with one of them, crying a lot, wanting to return to 'home' and so on. Now the same child is so glad we moved, as she is now a teen in a city, able to go out a lot, has a good group of friends and so on. It's hard when they are little.

Here is it complicated by the English/Welsh language factor.

Whatever you do though, 50% attendance is not good enough. Your dd is 5, she can't just decide not to go to school!

She's keeping up the hysteria to make you change your mind, and to be honest, she's doing a good job.

I would sit down with your husband and decide if the reasons you wanted to move in the first place still stand. If they do, I would not move back even if you then move them school-wise. If the schools look excellent, I would probably put my foot down. I think it's the lack of clarity and you wavering which is making this worse. Just make a decision as parents and then go for that. And perhaps don't rush back every weekend to the village, that won't allow them to make new friends or see new and interesting things or find out about clubs they could attend in the new area.

People say 'kids are flexible' but my experience of moving mine from a very entrenched family environment to a city was similar- awful initially but so glad we did it long-term.

I am actually shocked that welsh speaking primaries even exist in this day and age.TEnglish is one of the 3 most widely spoken languages.How many speak welsh 300,000 maybe? Very few if any are welsh monoglots.

I'm not surprised they're struggling, having done all education through Welsh medium so far. Why do you see no future in Welsh medium education? A lot of good jobs in Wales ask more and more for Welsh language skills. And even if they don't end up using it past school-age, it's only a benefit, and in no way a hindrance. I did an English degree, and have a Welsh medium education.

I'd guess they will either be going to Cardiff High or at a stab, Bishop of Llandaff? If it's any other school, than it's not better than any of the Welsh medium schools. Glantaf is an excellent Welsh medium secondary and performs better than most schools in Cardiff, the two I've mentioned being the only exceptions I'm aware of.

I would move them to Welsh medium education.

thanks for all the feedback so far, we are having more time together as a family, commute is less, but they miss their cousins, and grandfolks, me and dh have a fraught relationship at times and the family support (they dont interfere) has given them the stability that our marriage doesnt really give them, they miss that the most, and yes definetly we have had discussions ipenly infront of them, even though we try not to about the situation. First 2/3 weeks even i was adamant we go back, DH said stay, and now he is saying go back and i am saying stay!

Fruitsoftheautumn wow, you're offensive. In Cardiff, Welsh medium primaries are very competitive and high performing.

They do exist and are thriving with many being over subscribed - in Cardiff they having to regularly create more welsh schools to keep up with the demand.

OK - silly suggestion maybe but might help - have you done a list of pros and cons? I suggest you and your DH both do one, independently, and then you compare notes.
If the pros to staying heavily outweigh the cons, then stay.
If the cons to staying are more, then go back.

Not many people like change and it is difficult to be uprooted in the middle of schooling - even if you do make new friends, it's still hard work, and to have to do all lessons in a different way and language as well would make it more stressful.

But you do also have to take into account the overall bigger picture, which is why you moved in the first place.

However, if your home place is going to be miserable because of it, then I think that should form a big part of your list...

I would not recommend Welsh Language schools at secondary level. In the part of Wales I lived as a teen many of the children who went to the Welsh medium secondary had problems at the (English speaking only) 6th form college and on to university.

You are giving young children too much say. They will not be able to see the bigger picture or how things should improve in the family unit, just the current changes. It is not too far to visit at weekends and holidays. Agree with pp you both need to show you are committed to making it work, that you can spend more positive time as a family, and insist dd attends ft. Don't engage in further debates with them about returning or missing school.m

Its no wonder they're unsettled then.

You need to be a united and stable front for the kids when everything else has changed!

Everything has changed:

Home
Social Circle
School
Language of instruction

Its big, but if you are their stable rock they will adjust. If you are a wobbly dithering mess they won't.

Your DD needs to go to school every day. Both parents need to be on the same page and giving out a secure message that you are staying put and need to make a go of it. You both need to be very positive whilst acknowledging the challenges the children face and providing support.

The dithering is the problem.

If you want to make a go of it you commit, and it will work. It will take time though - they need at least 6 months to settle. That means 6 months where you are clear that you are staying where you are, because it is in the long term interests of all 4 of you both as a family and individuals.

If the secondary in your home town is crap and racist then commit to your move.

If their grandparents and cousins are only 40 minutes away they are incredibly close. Make a plan to see them every second weekend - not every weekend. Do things in your new city the other weekends.

Missing grandparents who are only 40 minutes drive away and you can see every other weekend should fade. You have not taken them to Australia, you are far closer to the extended family than most people and they needn't miss a birthday party or Christmas or anything.

However what you say about your marriage is worrying - do you expect it to last? Realistically? Obviously if divorce is on the cards the kids need stability even more.

The thing is, if you go back now, what are you teaching them? That the world is a big scary place and the best thing to do is retreat back to the family and the life you know?

If you, as the adults in the family, have decided it's best for the family then that's what's happening. They will not be unhappy for ever at all, at 5 and 8, by 8 and 10 they will be well adjusted with friends, speaking English and able to start taking advantage of all the amazing things city life can offer. They are not being isolated from cousins and family as they can see them far more frequently than most people, and it sounds like the cousins are not as interested in always being around anyway.

I think as you say, the issue is your marriage and the fact you are having these discussions in front of the children. This needs to stop now. Decide together, in the next day or two, what you want to do- looking at the original reasons for moving, and then behave like adults! Your family being close won't cover up if your marriage is on the rocks, in the village or in the city. Then present it to the children, they will cry, then encourage them in every way possible- star charts for the mornings for your dd, perhaps treats for a day completed, and just start making this an exciting adventure. It will take time, but honestly, children of 5 and 8 will make that adjustment if you help them.