Children stuck between a rock and a hard place

[sef23]

Recently moved from a small quanit welsh village to the local city (Cardiff). DS (8) & DD (5) both taught welsh first language. 3 of their cousins were in the same school. Grandparents live nearby, and whole family got on well and saw each other daily. Kids were doing good in school.

Decided to move to a more multicultural area and english school, (kids are mixed race) old welsh school had 5/6 ethnic minorities out of 400 kids, but it makes no difference at that age, no bullying or racism at all. Idea was that when they are older they wont feel isolated by race, or any other 'tag'. I grew up in said village, primary was a dream, comprehensive was a nightmare.

Kids have now been crying daily for 5 weeks, they want to go 'home' hate new school. New school is great, highly estyn rated and multicultural and leads to a great secondary (highest rated), faught for 2 years to get them in, in that time they grew on and up in their welsh school more deeply immersed in the welsh language. DS is finding adjustment difficult from education viewpoint as well being taught solely in welsh, tutors and effort from us is helping, but he's still daily saying he wants to go back, as is DD as grandparents and cousins/aunts had more of a hand in their care than us, their parents who were working too much, DH especially so they feel they have been ripped from their 'safe and stable place'. They miss thier cosuins who they think of as siblongs and grandparents immensley.

DD has attended 10 days in 4 weeks , DS is going daily and despite immediately making new friends misses his old friends.

Their old school has agreed to take them back.

Do we stay or go? We dont want to prolong their agony further kids happiness is paramount but so is there future schooling which they will not think about now, also in the city much more things to do - eg swimming, tennis, etc which in the village we cant but have to drive to said city to do.

Is it more important that they are with family, or not? once cousins grow up they all go their separate ways, and their grand parents are in their 70's we want them to spend as much time with them as possible. Weekends we go back, kids dont want to leave. Cousins are out so they dont really get to see them.

Is welsh to english at year 4 too much of an adjustment to make, learning verbs, adjectives, pronounication, spelling etc all over again in english is proving hard, we dont want teachers to think they arent bright as in welsh school they were in top sets.

So confused, any advice would help.

*good !

Sometimes you have to be strong. Children don't see the future.

You are the adult and the reasons you moved are good ones.

I would stay and form a united front on staying.

Once your dc can see that you are not budging and you have given it more time they will settle. They will make friends. Start going to after school clubs and get to see how much more the city can offer them.

I would start by making it clear to DD that you won't put up with this nonsense.

If you had moved countries there wouldn't be the choice to go back.
As someone upthread said if you go back now all you are teaching them is the world is a scary place and to run back to the quaint village and never leave

I would stick it out. You have to look at the long term.

keep moving them wont do them any good at all its got nothing to do with who they go to school with and what language they speak its just basic security

I know it's not appropriate to say but I'm intrigued to know what village you are from with myself being from a small village in South Wales. There were children in secondary school with me from different ethnicities with no issues of racism. Could it be different now to when you were in school? Or be different by the time your children go to secondary school?

I have friends that have done degrees in Welsh. If anything I'd say speaking Welsh is an advantage now.

Also, you say if their not academic living in the city would be better for them. As long as they can drive or have access to public transport they shouldn't have a problem. Most people commute to work.

I wouldn't say living in a little village would cause them a disadvantage.

Also, you say if their not academic living in the city would be better for them. As long as they can drive or have access to public transport they shouldn't have a problem. Most people commute to work*

I think op is looking at widening their horizons now not before they are able

If moved a lot. It takes at least 6 months to settle. You need to give this time. Review it in a year and if everything's not great then consider your options (don't tell kids this).

You sound like you have a good school with good secondary school options. Extended family is nice but more family time is hugely more important. Stop going bad to village at weekends and do fun family stuff in the city instead

To drive. Also I don't think public transport and small village is a thing where ever you are.
So if Op wanted them to have a go at other activities then it would be virtually impossible living where they were.

I have extended family in a tiny village in Wales and it is a very insular experience when ever we visited. I doubt that most had ever travelled more than a mile or 2 from where they were born.

I would worry that your children especially your DD would end up not being able to leave the village ever if you went back.

Her reaction to change doesn't seem normal for a 5 year old.

Your situation is made more difficult by the fact that you only moved a short distance, and could seemingly move back without too much hassle. That, I think, can stop you ALL from fully committing, especially if you’re returning every weekend. We are 6 months into an international move, with similar language issues for my 4 and 5 yo at school. They are JUST starting to settle and speak. I’d advise you to form a united front with your DH, give it 9 months, and then reassess.

P.s. I respectfully disagree with oliversmumsarmy re your daughter’s reaction to change. My 4yo has found the move very hard indeed, although he is better in the last month or so.

Moving can be hard on children but they do settle. The most concerning thing is you allowing your daughter to only attend on 10 days out of four weeks. New friends won’t want someone flakey whose never there and is unreliable. Ignore her behaviours and get her into school to give her any chance of settling and of opportunities later in life. Truanting at primary is a serious concern.

Go home. I'm Welsh....ignore all this claptrap about Welsh as a first language. It's FINE. A number of my friends who went to Welsh speaking secondary schools have done outstandingly well in their professional lives.

More than one went to Oxford and others are living in London and working in great jobs. Some are in Wales still...one's on telly regularly. It sounds like they were better off before OP.

Great advice from PP. You must stop letting your dc call the shots. Get a consistent behavior management scheme in place-if you can't control your five year old, what hope do you have when she becomes a teenager?

I think you had solid reasons to move and need to trust yourselves. They're never going to settle if they believe that digging their heels in might get them what they want. And if you're saying that they're closer to the extended family than to you, surely that's even more reason to stay away and let your bond develop?

RiddleMeThis2018 there is a huge difference between finding a move hard and being in such a hysterical state every morning that he can't attend nursery/school

Thank you everyone for the feedback, this week we were going to go back until DH said give it longer, problem is we are too soft, we cant see the kids cry like this to the extent they are, they have both made friends daughter less, but 'yes mommy i talk to people but i have to but they arent my friends my friends are in the village' , feeling at times like this is a first world problem! Daughter repeats the name of her old school until she goes to sleep or 'bampy' being her grandad, literally, no word of a lie until she falls asleep crying. If we cant give them happiness in the here and now why have we done this, tomorrow is never promised. We do have an amazing bond with them but we have both encouraged a return to england of the 70's where families would live in one street, kids would run in and out of houses etc. We have bought more toys and arranged after school clubs and friends to come over. I must confess that today i did again say ok we will go back much to dh chagrin infront of the kids.

Why bother speaking any langauge other then english french spanish and manderian ALL othe languages are not worth while why bother teaching them.

Why bother teaching children in africa their national langauge when one of the 4 big langauges would better served?

Why should japan teach Japanese only people in japob speak it?

Do you know how bloody offensive some of you sound saying why bother teaching the national langauge of Wales because English is more widly spoken?

Gosh, no wonder the children are so unsettled if you're being so dithery about it! We've done a big move with our son, we presented it as a fait accompli. We are the adults and we decide where the family is going to live, this family isn't a democracy. It takes at least a year to settle completely in a new place, but you absolutely have to commit to it and give it a chance.

I think you would be doing your children no favours whatsoever if you give into them over this, what message is that to give to a five year old? I'd cut down on the visits back to the village for a bit, and for goodness sake stop calling it 'home'. Maybe show off some of the benefits of your new place, my son was sold on our new location very quickly when we took him on lots of outings to fun places we didn't have access to before.

I’d go back home - it sounds like they had an amazing happy life surrounded by family with whom they had a great bond. What’s not to like? I wish I had been able to give my children that.
I grew up not far from Wales and know plenty of people who spoke Welsh as first language and as adults are doing perfectly well outside of Wales.
Your children's emotional well-being is massively important. I moved my kids to a ‘better’ area, outstanding schools etc. And regret it. They’d have been far happier and probably have done better academically if I’d stayed close to my family / and I didn’t have such a close family as you.

Hang on, you've been dithering about going back in front of the kids? You can be as ambivalent as you like inside, but if you and dad don't present a united front to your DC that this is happening, then the odds of it working are approximately zero.

I must confess that today i did again say ok we will go back much to dh chagrin infront of the kids.

This might sound harsh, or too blunt, but do you realise how cruel and selfish you are being?

Would you sit outside McDonalds and openly debate with yourself in front of your children if they could go in? No.

Would stand outside a paintball/swimming/activity place and debate if they could go on? No.

You wouldn’t do either of those things because that would be cruel. That is effectively what you are doing. You are dangling the thing they want most right now in front of them and then taking it away.

You are the adult. It is your job to provide your children with stability. If that is something that was provided in their lives by other people then you had no business moving them away to be honest. Start providing it now. You and your DH need to decide what you are doing and then you need to stick to it and stop tormenting your children and let them settle properly wherever you choose.

Your poor confused dc. Stop debating it for now, especially in front of them. When the issue of friends comes up reiterate that it is fine to have friends in more than one place , that friendships differ and you can do different things with different people. If they mention relatives have a plan for when they will next visit. It is not like you have moved far away. Change can be positive and you need to demonstrate this and set an example, while acknowledging it may be hard.

We had an international move when our children were about 5 and 7. They found it much harder than we anticipated and needed a lot of support. We committed for two years when we went and explained that to the children (and no we didn't consult them about the move, we told them that's what we were doing). When they got upset we told them we loved them, reassured them that they would settle and make friends and did fun things. Sometimes school was really hard for them and they really missed their old friends and teachers but not going was never an option.

Sorry OP I think you are handling this really badly, children need certainty, dangling a possible move back 'home' if they get upset is only going to lead them to be more upset and less likely to make any investment in school, friendships etc. Set a time limit with your dh as to how long you are going to try Cardiff for. Remember why you moved and all the positives you anticipate for all of you and put your energies into making a success of things.

I agree with everyone that you are being really unfair on the children. We all hate seeing out children upset. I still remember the year we moved and how miserable DS was. He has since admitted that it wasn’t that bad and he was punishing us.

You moved for good reasons. Reiterate those reasons to yourselves - you and DH. And just keep comforting the children and make the most of all the new opportunities you have. Build on new friendships and activities as you have been doing. But stop saying you will move back. It’s not fair. You need to give any move at least a year. But don’t tell the children that! Also not fair. Just you and DH get on the same page and show a united front and tell each other you will do a year at least. At the very least a school year.

Invite family and friends to visit you rather than you going back every weekend. And have some weekends staying put in your new home. Make it your new normal.

I am going to go against the tide here and say take them back to the school they loved and the grandparents they spend lots of time with. It sounds like a safe, lovely, warm upbringing and their grandparents won’t be around forever. You can move again when they are a bit older and able to rationalise more. My parents moved us to Spain when I was 7 and I had to leave a school I loved. I actually missed England desperately until the moment we left 9 years later when I was 16. If you do see it through, really hope it gets better soon. I felt quite emotional reading how stressed and upset your little girl is. Best of luck.

Exactly what ExFury said. You clearly want what's best for the DC, but until you give them stability you are not going have happy children.