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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To make a serious complaint against this nurse and ask for advice on how to do it

112 replies

Oldsu · 05/10/2018 23:38

First of all may I say I have every respect for the nursing profession, they are undervalued, underpaid and in the main are dedicated professionals - But NOT this one

Back story my friend is a carer for her DH who has early onset dementia (63) last year she had regular visits from a district nurse, because he had pressure sores, she didn't like this nurse, said she was rude, of course some people are by nature a bit brusque but my friend said she had complained about her and since then she had been really rude so I arranged to be at her house during the visit

And yes she was bloody rude, patronising and nasty she shouted at my friend and her DH, I wasn't present obviously when her DH was being examined or when medical issues were discussed but I heard some of what she said and recognised the tone and nature of a bully, I asked my friend if she wanted to make another complaint and I would be a witness but she said leave it because it would just make her worse.

This week however the actions of this nurse has made me so angry that I want something done about her, I want her to be made aware by a higher authority of the consequences of her actions I don't want her sacked but maybe to undergo further training before she is allowed to go near vulnerable patients and their carers.

This week started ok, my friend told me the nurses were coming on Friday( they still come every month even though the pressure sores have healed) , however in the early hours of Thursday I got a call from her saying tragically her DH had died, it was sudden because he had no other illness or conditions aside from the dementia.

Yesterday she told me they were going to do a PM today so I have been at her house all day because she is in a state of shock

About 3pm the doorbell rang it was the nurses and one was the one she had a problem with I was behind her when she apologised to them saying her DH had died, instead of being sympathetic, this nurse then proceeded to SHOUT at my friend saying why hadn't she been told, she had come all this way, for nothing when she could have been seeing other patients , what happened next was a blur, I told my friend to go inside I would deal with this I pushed past the nurses and stood by the gate making sure they couldn't get out and then let her have it with both barrels, I didn't shout or swear but I have a loud voice so the neighbours came out, I said how dared she speak to my friend like that, I believe I called her a nasty woman and that she was a disgrace amongst other things the other nurse looked terrified but I was so angry (still am I am shaking as I write this).

So what I want to know is can I make a complaint on my friends behalf as she not in a good state to do it herself, If I can't is there a time limit for her to make a complaint, what's the procedure and most importantly will anything actually be done.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give all the details

OP posts:

mumto2babyboys · 06/10/2018 10:12

They ‘should’ tell you they are referring you but I was taught not legally required to before involving social services. unless something has changed recently?

Obviously it’s not right a nurse behaving like this but I have seen and heard of a lot worse things working in hospital and nothing ever happens and she has zero evidence. It’s a he said/she said.

I think a lot of you are giving the original poster false hope that anything will actually be done about it. Maybe the trust will apologise but will the actual nurse involved be suspended? Or struck off or anything?

Hopefully the original poster will come back and update this at a later date.

BewareOfDragons · 06/10/2018 10:19

OP, you need to report ALL of it, including the obviously retaliatory phone calls to social services and the RSPCA. The timelines are obvious and glaring ... and all after the complaint was made about her care and manner.

You are a good person to stand up for your grieving friend, OP. I hope your friend is doing well.

CaptainCorrigan · 06/10/2018 10:26

Please do report this. I worked for a healthcare company and had to speak to district nurses most of the day, and the abuse I have faced from a lot of them was appalling and I always wondered what they were like in their job. I've also worked in home care and had to face awful district nurses. I don't know why people work in these professions when they have no people skills whatsoever.

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 10:53

It’s not false hope. doing nothing and berating a grieving friend for helping their grieving friend is just wrong. Doing something has more possibility than doing nothing. Also an apology may mean more than you think to a grieving wife. You don’t know how she feels. When it isn’t so raw people often don’t feel as angry ie want someone to lose their job

People want someone to listen to them. To hear them

Plus I know policy and procedure first hand as to what should happen, and if it doesn’t then yes, raise it further because that trust is failing in their caring duty

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 11:01

@mumto2babyboys

What do you do as a profession?
I am just asking because this is not the promotion of culture or attitude that I would want in anyone in a team. It’s defeatist and turning a blind eye. You should always report something that isn’t right. You should always strive to deliver the best care/service you can - just because other people act like they don’t care doesn’t mean we all should.
I am just wondering how much you know about dementia care, end of life pathways, multi disciplinary working, continuing healthcare etc - a person with dementia probably actually needs social care involvement at some point. This is completely normal. So to make a family feel that someone has effectively raised a safeguarding against them with no discussion is horrible for that family. If you have serious safeguarding concerns you can consult the safeguarding team about them and this could lead to an investigation. It did not sound like that it sounded like Nurse made a referral to social care without bothering to discuss it with the family and in turn this made them feel anxious and like they were failing their husband. That is really bad practice

RoomOfRequirement · 06/10/2018 11:25

First nurse needs huge complaint about her. Ridiculous and unacceptable.

But you were absolutely out of order to the second nurse. If you pushed past me and tried to prevent me from leaving, then shouted at me (Because none of us are buying that you didn't, when you admit it was so loud neighbours came outside) - I'd be putting in a large complaint about you.

And I think you've shot yourself in the foot by being like that then trying to complain.

Banana8080 · 06/10/2018 11:26

You sound awesome! And a great friend

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 11:28

On re-reading it all Op actually they have really let down his wife as she is a carer for the patient and they have a duty to support carers. The fact she was clearly struggling a little in her caring duties, and instead of helping her get the correct support by signposting, advice, helping her find a befriender, all the things you should do (perhaps he needed OT assessment with moving and handling? Perhaps he could have had help with dressing and washing from a care agency?) they went straight to SC for neglect is really bad.

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 11:30

@RoomOfRequirement

I think OP admitting her part in the response was an angry grief reaction would be acceptable. If you have ever been in contact with a person in pain or a relative who has just lost someone it’s actually exactly why you need to use compassion in your approach because people can act very out of character and irrationally in a raw emotive state.

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 11:34

I would go so far to say that unprofessional nurse actively put her colleague in a potentially dangerous situation. You don’t behave like that in potentially volatile situations

OnGoldenPond · 06/10/2018 11:40

Sadly, the reality is that there would have been virtually no chance of your friend's DH being taken away from her and put in a care home even if she was severely neglecting him (which I know she wasn't).

Adult social care is so overstretched that they will do anything to persuade relatives to care for them at home rather than be taken into residential care. It is so much cheaper to guilt trip relatives who clearly aren't physically capable of the task to care for them rather than pay care home fees.

When DF was taken into hospital after a fall they tried to force me to take him into my home and accept responsibility for his care despite the fact my house was completely unsuitable and I work full time. He was so crippled with Parkinsons he couldn't even sit up plus had dementia which kept him awake all night.

The social worker accused me of not caring about my DF. I replied that it was because I cared that I was insisting he got the 24 hour nursing care he so badly needed

BoreOfWhabylon · 06/10/2018 11:41

I'm a nurse. If I'd been the accompanying nurse and the situation happened as you describe I would have reported Horrid Nurse's behaviour myself (and she may well have done so). We do not want this sort of behaviour in our profession.

As others have advised, start with reporting to her employers, also CQC and NMC.

You are a good friend.

BlueSuffragette · 06/10/2018 11:49

Just wanted to say well done for supporting your friend. The 'nurse' seems to lack compassion. Please follow up your complaint as they will no doubt try and sweep it under the carpet.

PookieDo · 06/10/2018 11:50

I read this thread and some of the responses it is sad that nowadays there is a real lack of empathy. OP’s friend has lost her husband relatively young age in unknown circumstances and has to have a PM, she’s also been caring for him all this time and as he’s relatively young for dementia this must have been so heartbreaking for her and to see her friend struggle. Friend has tried her best and OP saw her friend being treated this way and wanted to say her piece to the nurses about how they have treated this family.

Bad nurse has this on her hands and should be accountable. someone by standing by a garden gate and expressing themselves (outside in the open) when they have only hours before lost a friend. Come on people. If you have ever lost someone you will know you don’t always act rationally

Original poster

Oldsu · 07/10/2018 05:55

Thanks you for all your advice and support, luckily its being taken out of my hands, my friends daughter was on holiday when her dad died is now back and supporting her mum and is now on the case and she is actually a family lawyer so is used to dealing with officialdom.

When she rang me to get my side of the story I did mention that a few people had said I hadn't helped matters by being aggressive and 'imprisoning' the nurses in the front garden and apologised to her if I had spoilt any chance of a complaint against the nurse due to my actions.

She rang up a few hours later having spoken to some of the neighbours and according to them I was quite restrained loud, but restrained and the nearest neighbour who could see everything thought the other nurse looked more embarrassed then terrified.

I have met my friends daughter before and I know she doesn't take any shit from anyone so something may now get done

OP posts:

ohfourfoxache · 07/10/2018 06:10

Oh that’s bloody marvellous - I’m so, so glad to read your update. Your friend’s dd being a family lawyer is just beyond perfect and I hope she takes it as far as she possibly can.

Have you written down exactly what happened? Dates, times etc - it might be useful if the daughter needs to refer to it at a later stage

ohfourfoxache · 07/10/2018 06:10

Sorry, meant to ask - how is your friend bearing up?

StoneofDestiny · 07/10/2018 06:16

Great update OP, thanks.

MadameGerbil · 07/10/2018 06:38

Sorry for your friends loss and you have been a suppor tive friend.

I know it doesn't change what happened but is it possible that the nurse with the 'brusque ' manner/flat affect/lack of empathy / black &white approach might be female undiagnosed but on the autism / aspie spectrum?

Doesn't forgive their behaviour but might help get them diagnosis support and less person facing role than bring a community nurse?

MadameGerbil · 07/10/2018 06:39

being not bring!

MagentaRocks · 07/10/2018 07:39

Every time someone posts about someone being a dick why does someone always ask if they could be on the autistic spectrum? Being autistic doesn’t make you a twat. Acting like a twat makes you a twat.

Some people are just not nice.

CluedoAddict · 07/10/2018 08:41

You should definitely get her to complain. However they should have been notified that the husband had died. The nurses have so many patients to visit then making a call they don't need to must be frustrating. Her attitude though does need sorting out.

StoneofDestiny · 07/10/2018 10:09

Agree completely.

StoneofDestiny · 07/10/2018 10:10

Agree completely.

Original poster

Oldsu · 07/10/2018 12:38

ohfourfoxache thank you so much for asking after her, she is bearing up, but waiting for the results of the PM is getting to her, she thinks his death was her fault hopefully when COD is ascertained it will be found to be natural with nothing she could have done, both me her daughter have tried to reassure her that the PM was only ordered because he wasn't under the GPs care and he died in the ambulance outside her home its just routine.

OP posts:

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