To make a serious complaint against this nurse and ask for advice on how to do it

[Oldsu]

First of all may I say I have every respect for the nursing profession, they are undervalued, underpaid and in the main are dedicated professionals - But NOT this one

Back story my friend is a carer for her DH who has early onset dementia (63) last year she had regular visits from a district nurse, because he had pressure sores, she didn't like this nurse, said she was rude, of course some people are by nature a bit brusque but my friend said she had complained about her and since then she had been really rude so I arranged to be at her house during the visit

And yes she was bloody rude, patronising and nasty she shouted at my friend and her DH, I wasn't present obviously when her DH was being examined or when medical issues were discussed but I heard some of what she said and recognised the tone and nature of a bully, I asked my friend if she wanted to make another complaint and I would be a witness but she said leave it because it would just make her worse.

This week however the actions of this nurse has made me so angry that I want something done about her, I want her to be made aware by a higher authority of the consequences of her actions I don't want her sacked but maybe to undergo further training before she is allowed to go near vulnerable patients and their carers.

This week started ok, my friend told me the nurses were coming on Friday( they still come every month even though the pressure sores have healed) , however in the early hours of Thursday I got a call from her saying tragically her DH had died, it was sudden because he had no other illness or conditions aside from the dementia.

Yesterday she told me they were going to do a PM today so I have been at her house all day because she is in a state of shock

About 3pm the doorbell rang it was the nurses and one was the one she had a problem with I was behind her when she apologised to them saying her DH had died, instead of being sympathetic, this nurse then proceeded to SHOUT at my friend saying why hadn't she been told, she had come all this way, for nothing when she could have been seeing other patients , what happened next was a blur, I told my friend to go inside I would deal with this I pushed past the nurses and stood by the gate making sure they couldn't get out and then let her have it with both barrels, I didn't shout or swear but I have a loud voice so the neighbours came out, I said how dared she speak to my friend like that, I believe I called her a nasty woman and that she was a disgrace amongst other things the other nurse looked terrified but I was so angry (still am I am shaking as I write this).

So what I want to know is can I make a complaint on my friends behalf as she not in a good state to do it herself, If I can't is there a time limit for her to make a complaint, what's the procedure and most importantly will anything actually be done.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give all the details

You must write down everything that happened now while the recollection is clear, and ask your friend’s neighbours if they would provide witness statements I necessary.

It's really irrelevant if the nurse did the right thing reporting a dirty floor.
A good nurse would have the communication skills to work with the patient and his family and carers in such a way that doesn't make anyone feel intimidated or frightened.
This nurse is a bully. I am saying this as a nurse myself, her behaviour and attitude is totally unacceptable.
I'm not sure that shouting at her in the street will have helped the situation but under the circumstances, given you were stressed and worried about your poor bereaved friend I think it's totally understandable.

I would start by writing everything down straight away. You can bet your very last dollar that the two nurses have already drafted up their own accounts of what happened in case you complain. In fact bully nurse may well have already reported the incidence to her own management herself.

Then contact her line manager, you can ring the GP practice that she is attached to and start by speaking to the practice manager to find out how to start the complaint process.

I'm not sure what reporting her directly to the NMC will achieve but it's probably worth doing - I've been a nurse for 20 years and have no idea what happens when someone reports directly to them. I presume they have to investigate, probably by contacting her employer first which is why you must also complain to her line manager as well.

to you and your friend OP. This is the very last thing she needs to deal with right now.

Do you know which NHS Trust / organisation she works for? Look up their website which should have information about how to complain. You need to raise the complaint with the trust first and foremost and they will investigate. They may have received other concerns about her too so it is vital they are aware. Is she definitely a nurse or a health care assistant?

The NMC will tell you to do the above. While they review fitness to practice cases, these will have all gone through the nurses’ employers first. I work in this field.

Unfortunately by raising your voice towards her, you may be viewed as abusive yourself. Don’t let that put you off reporting her to her employer though. Her manager will want to know there are issues and you may not be the only one raising concerns. They absolutely will do something about it especially if this is a pattern of behaviour.

As a nurse you must also have experienced horrible Nhs staff who nonlonger really care about patients or their extended family. It’s just a job to them.

The poster said she was making a serious complaint but realistically I doubt anything will happen to that nurse and as you said the other nurse will back her up and there is no evidence or any wrongdoing so try not to give her false hope.

She also said the friend is disabled with 4 dogs and a dirty floor and therefore the nurse had a duty of care to her patient, the husband; to ensure the environment he was being cared for in is hygieneic.

I would have had concerns myself but sorry for their loss and update if you do get anywhere with it and not fobbed off.

As a nurse, I would say please do make a complaint.

As a nurse if I had concerns about the impact of poor hygiene in a patients home I would have discussed this directly with the patient and their career in a kind and tactful way. I would have established whether they needed help with cleaning and if so tried to facilitate getting help in from other agencies.
Obviously I would have documented my concerns but what I wouldn't do is report the patient to social services without actually discussing with the patient first and trying to help.
I have certainly met nurses who have lost their compassion and for whom it's become 'just a job'. In my opinion they should no longer be practicing and working with vulnerable people.

That's an absolute disgrace. Unfortunately there are nurse like this, I have worked in a hospital for 10 years now and although not common it does happen. My advice is to bypass management. Go higher, management don't deal with things well imo. If the big bosses are made aware of this then action will have to be taken. Write down everything you've witnessed, in as great detail as you can whilst its still fresh in your mind. I'm so sorry for your friend x

Yes PALS cover DV’s (home visits)
Yes this actually ought to have been investigated prior as a formal complaint and the complainant informed of the outcome
Yes this nurse should be formally investigated by her line manager and HR procedures
Yes this is awful conduct and I would contact the line manager of the nurse and PALS with a brief outline of your complaint and whenever you feel up to it more of a timeline type statement
Yes you can do this on behalf of your friend
Patients pass away and we don’t always get to know about it, in our team we actually visit relatives and send cards to them - we care, and are sad with them about their loss. This reaction is not normal no matter what their daily workload is like

I am honestly so sorry for your friend this is awful
Some nurses have little compassion and actually should district nursing once they get to this point (I have also met one at this point - she was not coping with the job and taking it out on all her patients)

@MudCity

The raising voice against the nurse probably will not become an issue
The nurse no longer has to visit that house and the conduct of the nurse should be reported. Call the district nurse office and ask for the details of the line manager and PALS. You don’t have to tell them why you want it.

I'll be honest OP this woman is despicable but you may find yourself on the wrong side of the law here given that you prevented them leaving and were aggressive. Quite understandably so but still.

Please can you all actually realise that in most Trusts the official line is ALWAYS APOLOGISE. Even if you don’t admit liability, there should be a formal apology. I have never seen a complaint where the complainant is lambasted for their own conduct unless it was actual violence/threats

What happens when someone reports them is this

-Complaint is opened by patient experience team and they provide a date/timeline of how long the line manager has to do this
-Line manager has to investigate incident and gather details, meet with nurse, witnesses and complainant

• line manager has to write to complainant officially with actions being taken, outcome of investigation
• nurse will probably have to attend customer care training
• note of incident will be left on personnel file of nurse for probably 1 year and during that year the nurse is expected to not have any more complaints about conduct
• if this incident is one of multiple on file then further action may be taken under Trust policy of performance/conduct

But have you read the backstory. The friend already complained about this nurse and so she brought a second nurse on the visits and the other agencies who help in cases of poor home environment conditions like this sounds it might have been, are social services!

I have met many others in healthcare who just don’t care, it’s not right, we all took an oath in the beginning to do no harm but I have seen some shocking things myself working in the hospital and nothing evet happened to the staff involved

‘Wrong side of the law’ is rather over-dramatic. However OP, I do think the vile nurse will try to turn this around by blaming you. My advice would be that this is a joint complaint from you and your friend and covers her previous behaviour too; that way she can’t claim she acted the way she did because she felt intimidated.

Yeah I saw it. And clearly line management decided the nurses should be on double ups at that particular house. If the nurse has spun her own perspective on this as to why double ups are needed then this hasn’t been shared with the family - and that’s wrong. The double ups will be because the nurse has crossed the line before with this patient and family and now is protecting herself by having a witness accompany her or has been told as prior complaint to double up to avoid more complaints. But this didn’t work because the nurse still acted unprofessionally

So the line management didn’t deal with complaint no1 correctly either and follow any procedure for complaints

@mumto2babyboys

It is not unusual for patients with long term conditions or disabilities to have support from social services or mental health. That is normal. And how it should be. That is what social care is actually for. To help support people who are struggling, to help carers. OP I would not focus on receiving social care support as that is actually very normal. But they should always actually TELL you ‘I’m going to refer you for further support’ and to not do so has bred further underlying tension

Her manager will know what she's like as if this manner is typical of her this won't be the only time she's upset someone either colleagues or patients.

PALS and the Nursing Council.

What a terrible time of it your friend's had. Good for you.

You are a very good friend.

Sorry I get sooo aggrieved by this 😂

This is part of my job, and I worry that telling people not to complain about a registered professional because they also acted badly during grief and stress means that more registered professionals go around acting unprofessionally. The nurse had not just lost their husband the nurse is an employee providing a service and has a duty of care and conduct to uphold even during difficult situations.

OP I would acknowledge any of your own behaviour in your complaint and be transparent about it. The relative and yourself are grieving, it’s really not a crime to do so and reacted based on very unprofessional and disrespectful comments from the nurse. The nurse is just thinking about her workload and not people as humans with emotions

Good on you, she thoroughly deserved that, please pursue a complaint against her, some people should not be in the caring profession, they are anything but.

I agree with ellapaella..I also think her manager probably knows what she is like. I think you should complain but I doubt much will happen. I am a nurse and Communication is so vital....in a caring compassionate way. That cannot be taught. Some nurses have no social skills. I am very sorry.

Before giving the nurse Ratchet what for, I would have told the other nurse, that this is nothing to do with her, you are very angry with the way nurse Ratchet has behaved, and that you grievance is with her, then proceed to put Nurse R in her place.

Please complain and complain and complain.

Might be worth dropping an email to the CQC - this nurse isn’t demonstrating anything about being “caring” is she? (That’s one of the 5 things CQC looks at)

Horrendous behaviour. I have worked with lots of healthcare professionals and they would have been apologising profusely at the mere thought that they'd further upset a person simply by asking for a relative who had died. They certainly would have understood that the wife's first thought wouldn't be to inform a service that comes once a month either. Shockingly appalling.

Please contact PALS and the CEO of whichever Trust is providing the care. Also the local authority as a lot of health services are increasingly coming under the jurisdiction (or joint) of the commissioning teams located there.

There are horrors in every line of work of course. But she sounds like a particularly nasty one. The other nurse was maybe more worried about the reaction of the bully on the return journey - she doesn't sound like she is used to being pulled up on such callous behaviour.

The profession should not have people like this (thankfully I have been lucky enough to have seen real and true nursing by 99.9% of the nurses that have cared for me at a hugely terrifying time health wise. I don't care how sickly this sounds...but those men and women were angels... and filled me with confidence at a time when I was scared I was going to die and leave a small child behind)
And while the profession should not have nurses like this.... everyone should be lucky enough to have a friend like you who was there to support and stand up for your friend when she needed you.

Yes, CQC as suggested by ohfour.