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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that romantic relationships will die out

108 replies

Diffident · 05/10/2018 17:34

I'm male and 40 something. I am absolutely no expert on anything at all just an observer. I'm not in a relationship and haven't been for a long time. Sometimes I contemplate the future and look around me and think that perhaps most people would be better off if romantic relationships especially heterosexual ones where most of the dysfunction seems to happen did not happen as much as they do and didn't occupy such a central place in our culture.

I realise this might sound like sour grapes as I've not been very successful in this aspect of my life. Honestly when I look around at people married and in relationships and friends and so on all I see is frustration and unhappiness. People who date as well just don't seem to be able to find what they're looking for. Things from observation are somewhat better amongst lesbian and gay people. Clearly if women physically able to conceive want children they can go down the route of sperm banks or make an arrangement with a friend. Men wanting to do the same can do the latter if not the former. It isn't compulsory to be in a relationship and if it seems to cause so much human misery well wouldn't it be better for some kind of voluntary moratorium and focus instead on physical and mental health, solving climate change and friendships?

OP posts:
Sethis · 05/10/2018 19:28

I'm pretty sure in 10,000 years of human history we might have worked out a better option if there was one.

Honestly, a lot of misery doesn't come from relationships, but rather societal constructs that fly in the face of the natural order of things.

I mean, imagine how people might relate to each other if monotheism had never, ever, become a dominant form of worship. Paganism and Pantheism instead of Christianity and Islam. Far less focus on serial monogamy, no concept of sin or shame around relationships. What if barter and the concept of property had never gained much of a root? Nobody getting married for money or out of duty, just because they honestly loved each other. Maybe marriage itself wouldn't exist. Why place external legal constraints on what you can and cannot do? Why enforce a nuclear family structure on every member of society, despite this being completely illogical from a childcare or social cohesion point of view? What was wrong with tribal or clan structures?

However we have what we have. Lots of people do manage to be happy, despite it all. Single people and couples both. I don't think the root cause of unhappiness is relationships, I think it's caused by people doing things that are unnatural, don't suit their nature, or out of duty rather than personal fulfillment.

TheNavigator · 05/10/2018 19:29

I do think I am very lucky to still be in love with the man I hooked up with nearly 30 years ago. But is is not always sunshine and raindrops, a long marriage is a continuous conversation, it certainly isn't all 'romantic'.

Perhaps if people were less hooked on romance, they might be happier? But then I fell wildly in romantic love and married for that reason, so who am I to judge? But I do think my marriage is the thing that brings me most happiness in life, it is the bedrock on which everything else has been built, including career and kids. So for me romantic love unlocked the door to happiness.

SoyDora · 05/10/2018 19:29

I'm not really seeing what men have to offer now

My DH supports me in everything I do, fully shares the load with childcare/housework etc, works hard... my life would be much worse without him in it.

Sethis · 05/10/2018 19:30

@CitrusFruit9

I'm not really seeing what men have to offer now.

What's the point of women apart from to have my kids?

Hmm

See how pointless that kind of logic is?

LavendarGreen · 05/10/2018 19:30

Whether you are meaning to or not OP, you are coming across as very negative, rather bitter, and yeah, suffering a case of sour grapes... Wink

And to suggest that only people in same sex relationships are happy (and that they never have any relationship issues) is just bizarre. Confused

I have had times when I have been single, and I have had times when I have been in a couple, (been married for over 20 years,) and I can tell you I definitely prefer to be in a relationship. It's OK to be single short term (like 4-5 months,) but not long-term. (IMO.)

Yeah I know some relationships are bad/dysfunctional and so on, but many are good, and most people (IMO) would much rather be in a couple than single for life. Sure, it's OK to be single for a while, but I can't think of anything worse than being permanently single. Sorry if that offends anyone, but I just can't.

And the only people I know who are permanently single, are either bitter and negative (like the OP,) or lonely, and envious of their coupled-up mates, (and desperate to be with someone ... ) You only have to look at the millions of people on dating sites to see that most people are not happy to be forever single.....

So yeah @diffident YABU ... You say you are sooooo happy single, and romance is dying out, but you're convincing no-one. Wink

@CitrusFruit9

Actually I agree that romantic relationships have largely lost their point. Romantic love is an ideal not borne out in real life and all too often it is a pretext to enable men to use women in lots of ways including getting them to do all the housework and childcare. I'm not really seeing what men have to offer now.

I genuinely feel sorry for you. You must have had some awful experiences to have this dark and sad attitude. Sad

I do believe that anyone who claims that romance is dead, and that it's 'pointless' must have been badly stung (and let down,) and I do feel sorry for them.

overnightangel · 05/10/2018 19:30

@Diffident you’re unhappy we get it

But don’t other people are happy. You seem really bitter.

Romantic love is amazing and makes you happy fulfilled and contented.
You’re entitled to your opinion but do t belittle others, which is what you are doing.
The work doesn’t owe you happiness you have to go out and find it

GloomyMonday · 05/10/2018 19:33

I agree. I often think of the divorce statistics. If 50% of marriages fail, how many of the other marriages - the successful ones - are actually happy?

I suspect there are many that hang on out of habit, lack of alternatives, for the kids, because of financial implications etc.

So, I don't know, maybe 25% of marriages that endure happily. Terrible odds.

And more than ever, a culture of 'I deserve to be happy' and transience.

JacquesHammer · 05/10/2018 19:35

I will genuinely never have another relationship. I’m not in the slightest bit interested and cannot see how my life would be enhanced in anyway.

I don’t think my way is right for everyone. I do think that people can’t understand and find a lot of meaningless platitudes surrounding less conventional choices.

Graphista · 05/10/2018 19:40

I've a friend who is a scientist roughly in the field of human biology/anthropology. She is very happily married to her 2nd husband. 1st marriage ended relatively amicably, they'd simply grown apart, they had 2 DC and co-parented very effectively with him living literally 2 doors away with his 2nd wife and while the DC usually slept at her home they went round to their fathers whenever they wanted and were always welcome. The wife and ex-wife got along well too as did husband and ex-husband.

She theorises the idea of a partner for life is unrealistic, that it's important to remember that this ideology developed when people quite frankly didn't live as long! So it wasn't actually unusual for the ones that lived a bit longer to have 2 or more spouses in a lifetime. Especially women (who generally live longer) who were dependent financially on men especially if they were mothers before there were any welfare payments in any countries as they needed to feed their kids! So they'd often re-marry for pragmatic reasons.

She says who we are at 20 is very different to who we are at 30, 40, 50... We have different needs and our perspectives and desires change.

But she also says relationships as a default are unlikely to die out purely due to evolutionary biology - the need to procreate. If relationships died out altogether so would the human race!

As a 46 yr old who has to all intents and purposes been single for 15 years (although I have dated at points when I've felt like it) and so a sort of objective observer of relationships, I think people often stay in a relationship when it's past its best - and that's not necessarily because anyone has done anything wrong.

See it on here sometimes (not as often as the ones where someone HAS done something wrong admittedly) where someone is saying something like "my spouse is not an awful person, I'm just dissatisfied/fed up" and rightly imo mners will generally say "you don't need a blame reason to leave, being unhappy/unfulfilled is enough" sometimes what the poster is experiencing is the natural waxing/waning of human relationships (which happens in friendships too - sometimes you're going through a time which certain friends 'get' and other times it's other friends that 'get' what life stage you're at) and ending the relationship isn't necessarily the right thing to do for either of you.

But sometimes it's just run its course.

I've been fine being single and totally believe it's possible to be just as happy single as in a relationship, of my friends there's a real mix of couples who married young and are still together, some are on their 2nd (or 3rd) ltr/marriage, some have had a ltr in the past but are now happily single and a few have never really been interested in having a ltr. They all have different reasons for what they've chosen.

I'm also bisexual and op I can assure you it is no easier for people in same sex relationships! For starters there's a much smaller pool of potential partners! Then there's just the fact that just because someone is bisexual or gay doesn't make them easier to be in a relationship with just cos you may be the same sex! People's personalities and beliefs still vary greatly and that of course causes tension and disagreement.

She and I agree that one thing is problematic though - the idea these days that your partner/spouse needs to fulfil all your needs! No one person can be all that for another, she has advised her children likewise (she's one son one daughter), that it's unfair to depend entirely on your partner/spouse emotionally. They are both happily married with DC. Still on 1st marriage for both, although her daughter is wife 2 to her husband. Again wife 2 and ex wife get on well, child from 1st marriage very well co-parented.

I think some people expect too much from a romantic relationship and then blame their partner when they don't get ALL their needs met by that person - my ex was like this and still is, he and wife 2 are miserable - I have it on good authority. She was ow, believed all his guff about how awful I was, now she's the one being regularly cheated on because he feels hard done by that she doesn't meet all his needs. I only had one child with him and he couldn't cope with that (hated that he was no longer my no1) they have 5 so he's got diddlies chance really! So he cheats!

Conseula I'm with Monica geller, I don't believe in soul mates. I believe in physical attraction, I believe in love developing as a result of a combination of physical attraction and compatibility on beliefs on the things that matter to you and if you also work at your relationship, act considerately toward your partner and compromise where necessary. I don't believe in star crossed, one person for one person nonsense. What if your soul mate were Australian and neither of you likely to ever have the wherewithal to go to the other side of the world?!

Also - regarding our parents/grandparents generation staying married for life - that wasn't necessarily because they were happy together! My parents have been married 49 years, to those who are mere acquaintances it MAY appear to be a happy marriage, but to anyone who knows them even slightly well knows my father is/was a violent, abusive alcoholic and my mother felt she couldn't leave as they were raised Catholic and taught you don't divorce - no matter what! It was shameful especially for the woman (yes even if he's a bastard!). Mum is now his carer and he still treats her like shit! Her parents marriage was a happy one as far as I know, certainly no obvious abuse. His parents - same, father violent alcoholic, again she wouldn't have considered leaving was even an option. She also was one of the worst for pressuring mum to stay with dad.

Speaking to friends their parents/grandparents marriages were a mix of happy/unhappy but again, certainly for the grandparents generation divorce simply wasn't considered an acceptable option.

I think people of younger generations forget the pressure there was then to stay married. Not just cultural/emotional but financial! Single mums back then wouldn't have had any money coming in if they didn't work and there weren't childminders etc and contrary to the rose tinted view of the past they couldn't necessarily rely on their mother or sisters providing childcare because certainly for the working class they were working too!

"A world without love is not worth having

I tend to agree, but love doesn’t have to only be romantic love." Same, I have my dd, relatives, dear friends that I love very much and they love me. I don't need a relationship to be fulfilled.

Sweetsummerchild - I have difficulties in life, mainly health related. They'd still be there if I were in a relationship. So aside from that I'd say I am happy.

I too think people rush into ltr. See it on here all the time! People move in together less than a year into meeting and then wonder why it went wrong! When science shows that in the first year the rose tinted specs are practically grafted on!

The successful relationships I know of they were together at least 2 years before marrying/moving in together, both parties are easy going generally, good at honesty and compromise, good listeners and kind people.

PeasAreGreat · 05/10/2018 19:45

This is a weird post. It's in our DNA to form romantic relationships because that's how we reproduce. And we just happen to be one of the few species that prefer to mate for life (like penguins)
I'm in a happy straight relationship, I couldn't imagine being with a girl, I'm a nightmare as it is so I couldn't deal with another load of hormones lol

PurpleFlower1983 · 05/10/2018 19:47

My husband is the best thing in my life, he has given me more happiness than I could have ever imagined and I think he would say the same about me so from that point of view, YABU.

Conseulabananahammock · 05/10/2018 19:48

If you don't learn to love yourself you'll never be happy. Maybe try working on that and thrn trying a relationship. This then in turn means your not with someone for the sake of not being alone ,and your more likely to find the right kind of person Instead of settling. Love yourself enough not to settle for anything less than true romantic lifelong love

LavendarGreen · 05/10/2018 19:56

WOW @GloomyMonday

Never has a username suited someone so much.

withsexypantsandasausagedog · 05/10/2018 19:57

No one is forcing people to be in relationships!

Bicyclethief · 05/10/2018 20:17

Why shouldn't we set something on a pedestal? Romantic love which lasts a life time is an immense thing. Why shouldn't we strive to achieve it? Why should we set ourselves lower expectations?

I wish it for my children but it's like someone says, they need to know their self worth so that they recognise it when they come across it.

Millions of verses, music scores, art work and films devoted to romantic love. Humanity values it for a reason because it is rare. We don't always achieve it, but we shouldn't give up trying to find it.

GloomyMonday · 05/10/2018 20:25

Too right lavender I chose it for a reason

JacquesHammer · 05/10/2018 20:27

Why shouldn't we strive to achieve it? Why should we set ourselves lower expectations?

I don’t think you should if you want it. If you don’t that’s equally as valid.

Dljlr · 05/10/2018 20:30

I think you make a fair point, but then I too am unsuccessful at relationships. I absolutely suck at them in fact. And I don't really know any long-term happy couples, either. Tbh I'd be happy with regular decent sex, the end. Fuck the rest of it.

SweetSummerchild · 05/10/2018 20:30

I'm not really seeing what men have to offer now.

Wellllllll, aside from companionship, great conversation, affection, friendship etc, there is one other thing that I get from my relationship with my husband.....

It’s called sex.

I’m a heterosexual woman. It’s something only a man could offer me. I happen to quite like it.

After 24 years of marriage we still have it.

Regularly.

Is that a good enough reason?

JacquesHammer · 05/10/2018 20:32

It’s called sex

You don’t need a relationship for that

Conseulabananahammock · 05/10/2018 20:39

Guess the naysayers haven't even had that moment where you meet someone and your world literally stops. Didn't believe in love at first sight until I met my partner . It was a mutual instant connection. Ten years later we still have the same connection. That never dies. Don't get me wrong we work at our relationship but you will never be miserable if you connect with someone like that!

JacquesHammer · 05/10/2018 20:40

Guess the naysayers haven't even had that moment where you meet someone and your world literally stops. Didn't believe in love at first sight until I met my partner . It was a mutual instant connection. Ten years later we still have the same connection. That never dies. Don't get me wrong we work at our relationship but you will never be miserable if you connect with someone like that

Yeah. I had that. Until we grew out of it Grin

Graphista · 05/10/2018 20:42

"You don’t need a relationship for that" absolutely not, I've had some very good fwb arrangements that suited me very well at the time.

But I also appreciate that's not for everyone (although I do think that some people that think that have perhaps not considered the alternatives thoroughly)

stevie69 · 05/10/2018 20:42

You don’t need a relationship for that

Quite so. I'd be pretty conflicted if you did Blush

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 05/10/2018 20:42

I agree OP.

I’m not entirely sure relationships will die out but romantic love is fairly new and hasn’t been a roaring success.

I think other forms of relationships will take its place. Where people don’t expect everything from each other.