that school won’t cut me any slack for double drop offs?

[Polkadotdash]

We moved house in the summer and we’ve ended up with three kids at two different primary schools. I accept that it is what it is and we have to just fit in where there are places. However, after a month of nearly killing myself to drop kids off at both schools, two miles apart who start at exactly the same time, I’ve asked both schools if they can help to take the pressure off me by accepting one child five mins early and maybe dropping the late mark drama for the other children. Neither school will budge. One school has a breakfast club which they’ve suggested I use for £5 a day. £25 per week, nearly £1000 per school year for five mins care (no food required). I can’t afford this.
It’s all been capped off today by one parent (who I don’t know) shouting something at me about the importance of not being late when I was trying to make my four year old run up the hill to school. I can’t put up with this for the next 5 years. What should I do? Should the school be more caring?

parent boy latent!

^Because an adult work place isn't a school...
Theres a difference between a line of work where flexibility is possible (in order to bring about greater equality between male and female employees in the workplace) and a school of a few hundred to more than a thousand students.
Surely that much is obvious.^

Completely obvious, but the consequence of that obviousness works in the opposite direction for me. An employee is paid to be there; they have a responsibility to their employer; if the employer allows flexibility, that is a perk o f the job. A 4 year old OTOH has no such responsibility. The smooth running of the operation does not depend on her.

The OP never said she can't afford it just that she doesn't tonight's value for money

Think! Not tonight's- Gah

Goldenbear
Except I'm not blaming women.
I'm saying when people choose to have children and opt to send them to school rather than home educating then it's fairly obvious that schools start at a particular time. The children need to be there for that time. It is the job of parents to sort that out.

One of my male colleagues is always first out when the bell goes, why? Because he does the pick up at his children's school and they finish 15 minutes after us. As parents that's for him and his wife to arrange. If he couldn't get there for pick up then him and his wife would need to sort wrap around care because they are parents.

It would be wrong to expect the school staff to hang on a bit keeping an eye on their children if the journey was a 20 minute journey because 'it's only 5 minutes and I don't see why I should pay for after school club'.

Sometimes I wonder if people who think they should be able to drop off late because it suits are the same people who are always late to pick up and then complaining school have billed them for the child going in the after school club (because it's only 5 minutes & the teachers at there marking anyway so why should I pay)

A 4 year old OTOH has no such responsibility. The smooth running of the operation does not depend on her.
By 5 minutes in at secondary I've done the register, it's been sent on the system, I've gone through the student notices and taken the class down for assembly or have started tutorial activities. So if they're late they get a late mark, have missed the notices and then end up having to walk in part way through an assembly. I'm not going back over things because someone is late. They'll need to get the information from friends.
Students arriving late to school and lessons does cause disruption. We don't sit there twiddling our thumbs until the child who's always late turns up. The day goes on.

I know that times have changed but I used to come from primary when I was eight. I think I may have used the underground when I was still in the juniors aged 11 or 10.

This being late doesn't seem like a big deal to me in primary or let the two wait outside the gate as suggested, Obviously it's to do with safeguarding and litigation now.

One of my male colleagues is always first out when the bell goes, why? Because he does the pick up at his children's school and they finish 15 minutes after us. As parents that's for him and his wife to arrange. If he couldn't get there for pick up then him and his wife would need to sort wrap around care because they are parents.

That is slightly different because paying for childcare enables them to pursue paid employment which will ofset the cost. OP has no such ofset.

I think at secondary school it is slightly different; schools are larger and more bureaucratic and by that time it is more the pupils responsibility to get there on time. Have to confess that DS was often late for high school, still in the days of paper registers, and it didn't seem to to pose a problem, well not until they changed his register teacher!

I'm saying when people choose to have children and opt to send them to school rather than home educating then it's fairly obvious that schools start at a particular time.

Very few people have the choice to home educate. If most people tried to do that then they would be out of the streets as they need a second income to have a roof over their heads and that is somewhat worse than being 5 mins late.

That is slightly different because paying for childcare enables them to pursue paid employment which will ofset the cost. OP has no such ofset.
But that's not the school's fault or responsibility.
He has to leave to get to his children's school by a set time. If he can't get there in time then it would be wrong of him to say 'it's only 5 minutes. The teacher should keep an eye. It's only 5 minutes so why should I pay for wrap around'.

Same for the OP.

Kpo58
I'm not saying people should home educate. I'm saying that if you have kids and do what most people do which is send them to school then schools have starting times. It's not a new or revolutionary idea. School starts at a published time. Parents should get their children there on time.

Sheer number of people who think rules don't apply to them is amazing. Now I know why there's always a thread every few weeks from someone annoyed theyv e been billed for after school club having not picked their children up on time.

She did say she couldn’t afford it.

If everyone was home educating what would the school teachers do?

It's the rigidity I find unhelpful. Society is becoming more flexible. I think there should be a bit more flexibility.

Just be late for one
Also a lot of the time you can’t drop and leave till a member of staff is there on the gate
A late mark doesn’t matter. It’s the easiest option rather than using wrap around care for five mins
Easiest option-less stress-happier kids

MaisyPops it's disingenuous to suggest school does not have a dual purpose of childcare. Schools are not comparable to universities as they are public bodies that are there to provide an education to children, that in itself means there are completely different requirements put on them and additional laws to satisfy. Schools are not purely there to educate children on subjects.

Universities are there to educate adults on subjects and it is completely on a voluntary basis.

If everyone was home educating what would the school teachers do?
I wasn't saying everyone should home educate.
I'm saying people have choices.
People choose to have children.
Parents can opt to home educate or send to school (and most will send to school).
People can choose how to structure their family set up (within reason).
People can make choices about the sort of child care set up that suits their family's situation.
The OP had a choice about whether to send her children to 1 school or not.
She chose not.

As I've said, if the LA had said the only places available were in 2 schools, i would say the LA should be financially supporting the wrap around care because that's an LA issue. The OP opted for a situation where she cannot get children to school on time.

Goldenbear
Children being at school makes it easier for parents to work and do whatever else they need to.
They are not childcare organisations.
The fact some parents act like the point of school is to babysit around their jobs doesn't change that fact. They are schools. If parents require wrap around childcare then they require childcare.

I'm not saying people should home educate. I'm saying that if you have kids and do what most people do which is send them to school then schools have starting times. It's not a new or revolutionary idea. School starts at a published time. Parents should get their children there on time.

Its not new or revolutionary, but what is quite a recent thing is to have primary school children at 2 schools 2 miles apart. It wasn't OP's choice; she would have preferred all children at the one school near near home. As things areare, the only way get the YR there on time is to pay £25 a week she can ill-afford.

I think the primary school set up isn't ideal. It's worth asking the school how it's managed. (Saying that where I used to live the infants was in one village and the juniors was in another. 2 tiny village primaries merged to be 1 split site one. They found a way to make it work, but I can't remember how now)

But they were offered a place at a school that would take all 3 (removing this issue) and they turned it down.

But your missing the point, the school was far away. Local friends and being at a school that's part of the community is particularly important at primary age. Schools are also there to help social development, this is easier if you have the same local references as your friends, that you can play around each others houses/flats if your only a few blocks away from each other.

The 'rules' need rethinking, if common sense no longer prevails. What about valuing each other and trying to help each other out a bit, not taking a defensive and stringent approach that means a 7 year child is labelled as a problem through no fault of their own. It's the wrong ethos to encourage in schools and it is devisive.

The school was further away but means all children get there on time.
Or go for schools later and need to find a way to get around a less than ideal situation.

How do other people at these schools do things?
E.g. Is there a walking bus that runs for some of them? Do parents car pool? Is there a Facebook group OP could ask? Are there childminders that might do the school run for one?
Do the children qualify for PP funding? If so part of that could fund or subsidise the breakfast club.
If it's a split site primary then other parents will be in the same situation and I'm guessing those parents aren't all making one child late every day.

Schools are providing care of your child - it's an argument in semantics. School doesn't just make it 'easier' for parents to work it means they 'can' work. It means that can provide a roof over their heads and food to eat for people who are very valuable for society. People who will be paying taxes in the future, paying for your retirement and everything else that keeps society running for those who are too old to work!

All that is true golden but the point of school isn't to provide childcare. The point of schools is to educate.
It's not arguing semantics. The schools do not exist so parents can have free childcare. (Though the way some carry on in school holidays you'd think that was the case)

Talk of people who'll pay taxes later is irrelevant. Schools are there to educate. Teachers are there to teach. Childcare providers are there to provide childcare outside the school day if it is required.

People who say school isn't childcare should try telling that to the DWP. It is very clear that single parents are expected to work once their youngest is at school and they are penalised if they refuse.

The further away school wouldn’t be ideal but it would be doable. Plenty of parents have to compromise and send their kids to a less ‘good’ school or one that is further away because the alternative isn’t doable. The op has created this situation for herself so it’s hers to solve.
And whether she wants a free place in the breakfast club or not any ‘flexibility’ is going to involve staff at the school having to be responsible for her child for 5/10mins in the morning if they are too young to be left alone. There are plenty of parents who are rushing off to work after drop off and are late if the gate is opened late or traffic is bad who would also be looking for ‘flexibility’ (free childcare) if the school offered it to one parent.
Who are people expecting to do this childcare? Both teaching and office staff are rushed off their feet in the mornings in every school I’ve been in. They certainly couldn’t commit to have someone babysitting before school every day.

Missillusioned
(I dislike the DWP policy on this in some respects)
The children are in school so in the eyes of the DWP that means the parent is available for work.
It doesn't make school childcare. It means the children are in school.

@maisypops I realise this isn't the point of the thread, but I'm just musing. Do you think that a single parent could choose to home educate and the DWP would accept that they were unavailable for work? I think not.