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AIBU?

Was this Rape? (possible trigger?)

86 replies

BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 09:40

First post here so be gentle but I want to know if you think IABU to consider this as rape…

Few years back, seeing a boy, early stages (around 1-2 months)
He kept asking for sex but I kept saying no, over and over again, as I felt like it could be a potential relationship and I didn’t want to ‘ruin’ it by sleeping together too soon (tbf this should have been my first warning but hey ho, young and stupid I guess)
I stayed round his house a couple times, but I stuck to my guns and only kissing/cuddling happened.
There was then a night out at the local pub with friends, he kept buying me drinks but we were all pretty drunk and having a good night, fast forward to the end and I’m back at his, he has given me a joint (I don’t usually smoke so this knocked me for 6 on top of the alcohol) I’m so high/drunk I don’t even remember going to bed.
Wake up and he tells me we had ‘sex’ when we got into bed.

I’m not looking to use this thread as a means to prosecute, it’s just something that’s always played on my mind since it happened and I would like some opinions as I’ve not openly shared it to people in my life. I feel because we were seeing each other and I stayed at his – I can see why he may feel I consented to this?? shortly after this I stopped seeing him as I felt betrayed. I would just like to know if you would class this as rape? Because I had said multiple times while sober I didn’t want to sleep together until we were ‘official’, but he waited until I was completely inebriated to take his chance when I couldn’t even keep my eyes open.

Thanks for reading

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ghostyslovesheets · 04/10/2018 09:43

yes - I'm sorry OP x

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SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 09:43

Yes it was.

Would you get someone drunk and high so they did something they wouldn't otherwise do?

No?

It's not a very nice thing to do.

Coercion is part of the undermining of consent as is giving someone alcohol and drugs.

Aibu can be a bit of a different place to discuss this kind of thing than eg relationships.

Hopefully posters are, indeed, gentle.

I'm sorry he did this to you.

If you wanted support around it you could contact a rape crisis organization who would act as a listening ear.

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GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 09:47

He had sex with you knowing you wanted to wait and while you were drunk and drugged? He raped you for sure.

What happened after this event OP? How are you now?

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SlipperyLizard · 04/10/2018 09:52

I would say not necessarily. Key to rape is consent, and the courts are clear that drunken consent is still consent. But (and this is key) if a person is unconscious through drink/drugs then clearly they cannot consent.

So it depends whether you were so drunk/high that you agreed (or he had reasonable belief that you agreed, as that is the legal test), or so drunk/high you were unconscious and so de facto incapable of consent.

Either way I’m sorry this happened to you as he was clearly a shit of a man.

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staffiegirl · 04/10/2018 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:03

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but I don't consider it rape. In recent years there has been a big emphasis on the fact that if you are too drunk to consent then it is automatically rape. This used to be considered "being taken advantage of".

Unfortunately, I got myself into more situations like this than I care to remember (bad childhood, lots of ishoos) and looking back I feel disgusted that I let myself be taken advantage of but I totally lacked self-respect. However, I also recognise that it was my own responsibility to keep myself conscious enough that I knew what was happening to me - I didn't, lesson learnt. Nobody forced me to drink or smoke and, unfortunately, when I went too far I wasn't in a position to consent or otherwise.

I know most people here will probably disagree and maybe it's because things have changed recently (and rightly so). However, the situation you described makes me think that he was an awful, immature creep that completely took advantage of you but I personally don't think I would consider it rape. The law would probably take a different stance, it's just my opinion.

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BlueSuffragette · 04/10/2018 10:03

Yes sorry as you didn't consent to it.

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BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 10:03

Hi all, thanks for your responses! I am okay but I’ve had a very traumatic few years after losing my only sibling to suicide so I’ve struggled with an array of mental health problems myself, this has just kind of been another piece of the puzzle to why I’m not in the best place mentally. I am on anti-depressants because of it all, however I do feel I overlooked this and I would like to try and overcome it so I can get better!

Thank you for being so kind

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DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:10

By the way, I want to make it clear that, in my above comment, I am in no way victim-blaming. I absolutely do not think that "if you get drunk you deserve what's coming to you". Simply that when you get very drunk the lines of consent are blurred and creeps (who are totally at fault) do take advantage but I don't necessarily consider it a sexual assault. I think it really depends on the circumstances.

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DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:13

And BacktoNeverland, I'm really sorry you're going through a rough time - I've been there. I think it's important to really look at all these things to try to make sense of them. It will definitely help you on your recovery.

Whether you use the word "rape" or not, you clearly feel that something wrong went down that night and if it's still affecting you now, you'd do well to revisit it with a therapist.

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BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 10:15

@DolceFarNiente – I see where you are coming from, and this is slightly how I feel and why I am conflicted. I feel like obviously if I hadn’t had made the decision to drink and smoke that night then I could have said no. But I suppose it’s the fact that I kept saying no when I was sober that has made me think, actually, he was wrong and maybe it was rape.

It is very circumstantial and these things will never be cut and dry cases…

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knittingdad · 04/10/2018 10:16

When I was at university I once drank so much that I later woke up, wearing only underpants, in the stairwell locked out of my room. I had to borrow a dressing gown so I could find someone with a spare key.

While embarrassing and not behaviour to be encouraged, needless to say that, as a man, I was never in any fear that someone would take advantage of me while I was drunk to have sex with me without my consent.

Women should also be able to live without that fear.

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GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 10:16

But Dolce the OP doesn't know if she did consent, given that previously she had told him she wanted to wait to have sex it seems highly dubious that he had sex with her when she was so drunk and high.

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SlipperyLizard · 04/10/2018 10:18

Whether it was rape or not, it was not your fault - the reality is that he breached your trust and did something he knew you didn’t really want.

But please don’t blame yourself for his actions.

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BonfiresOfInsanity · 04/10/2018 10:21

I completely disagree with DolceFarNiente. We have all been in a position, at some points in our lives, where we are not in full control of our situation (and I don't just mean through drink or drugs). This does not warrant someone else taking advantage of that situation, in fact any reasonable human being would look after you rather than have sex with you. He raped you and I'm so sorry that you are doubting and judging yourself for it. Flowers

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BonfiresOfInsanity · 04/10/2018 10:22

Exactly knittingdad!

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DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:31

This does not warrant someone else taking advantage of that situation, in fact any reasonable human being would look after you rather than have sex with you.

I never for a second said it warranted someone taking advantage of you and I'm pretty sure I made that very clear in my comments above. I also made it clear that this guy was not a decent human being and I said he was clearly in the wrong.

The only part that you don't agree with is that I don't necessarily consider it "rape".

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DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:35

But Dolce the OP doesn't know if she did consent, given that previously she had told him she wanted to wait to have sex it seems highly dubious that he had sex with her when she was so drunk and high.

I know what you're saying but, for me personally, if you're drunk and don't know/remember if you gave consent or not, I don't necessarily consider that rape although I know that these days most people disagree.

There have been times when I said to the guy I wanted to wait before taking it further but then got drunk and ended up changing my mind because I was horny - it does happen! (Although I'm not saying it happened to the OP).

Also, some people are saying that he waited 'til she was drunk and high to try it on but that's not true. OP stated that he tried it on many times when she was sober too. These creeps just keep trying their luck hoping we will eventually give in Sad

I really hope we can teach our sons that this kind of behaviour is not on but, as long as these guys keep existing, I also hope we can teach our daughters to have self-respect and see it as a huge red that a guy keeps pestering you for sex.

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SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 10:38

'just keep trying their luck hoping we will eventually give in ' sounds like coercion to me

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GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 10:38

There have been times when I said to the guy I wanted to wait before taking it further but then got drunk and ended up changing my mind because I was horny - it does happen!

Yes but you remembered that. The OP doesn't remember changing her mind.

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knittingdad · 04/10/2018 10:39

@DolceFarNiente - What do you see as the difference between "rape" and "taking advantage of" ?

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Justgivemeasoddingname · 04/10/2018 10:44

I am also possibly going to get flamed but how do you know you didn't consent to it that night? We all know how drink and drugs make us behave and feel- and how many of us do things only when drunk we wouldn't dream of when sober? For me it's karaoke but for people I know it's all sorts. Getting naked, being aggressive, be Having embarrassingly and just losing all sense of your morals. What's to say you didn't walk in to the bedroom, do a striptease and say yeah let's do it?
If you can't remember what did happen then you can't remember what didn't happen. If you can't control your actions when drunk/high then you shouldn't really allow yourself to get drink or high.
I in no way excuse him if he did take advantage of you but I think rape van be passed off when people don't want to take control of their actions. No one made you get drink or high unless they pinned you down and poured the alcohol down your throat.

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roundturnandtwohalfhitches · 04/10/2018 10:47

I wouldn't say it was rape because you don't remember if you consented or not. It can still be wrong though. Was he drunk and high as well? Drunk people don't generally make good decisions. The only person who knows is the man and he's unlikely to admit any wrongdoing.

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purpleme12 · 04/10/2018 10:49

I agree. If you can't remember having sex then you can't remember at that point either consenting at that time or still saying no. So I can't see how we can say it's rape without this information

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DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 10:50

What do you see as the difference between "rape" and "taking advantage of" ?

In the case of man-woman, this is how I see it:

Rape - a man forcibly penetrating a woman's vagina with his penis against her will; when she has categorically said no or is completely unconscious so unable to say no

Take advantage of - a man using a woman's vulnerable emotional or physical state to do something sexually to her that she probably wouldn't have agreed to had the circumstances been different; she is conscious or has not categorically said no

Not remembering the next day does not necessarily mean that you were unconscious at the time.

That is how I personally see it. You may disagree but OP asked for opinions and that is mine.

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