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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Was this Rape? (possible trigger?)

86 replies

BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 09:40

First post here so be gentle but I want to know if you think IABU to consider this as rape…

Few years back, seeing a boy, early stages (around 1-2 months)
He kept asking for sex but I kept saying no, over and over again, as I felt like it could be a potential relationship and I didn’t want to ‘ruin’ it by sleeping together too soon (tbf this should have been my first warning but hey ho, young and stupid I guess)
I stayed round his house a couple times, but I stuck to my guns and only kissing/cuddling happened.
There was then a night out at the local pub with friends, he kept buying me drinks but we were all pretty drunk and having a good night, fast forward to the end and I’m back at his, he has given me a joint (I don’t usually smoke so this knocked me for 6 on top of the alcohol) I’m so high/drunk I don’t even remember going to bed.
Wake up and he tells me we had ‘sex’ when we got into bed.

I’m not looking to use this thread as a means to prosecute, it’s just something that’s always played on my mind since it happened and I would like some opinions as I’ve not openly shared it to people in my life. I feel because we were seeing each other and I stayed at his – I can see why he may feel I consented to this?? shortly after this I stopped seeing him as I felt betrayed. I would just like to know if you would class this as rape? Because I had said multiple times while sober I didn’t want to sleep together until we were ‘official’, but he waited until I was completely inebriated to take his chance when I couldn’t even keep my eyes open.

Thanks for reading

OP posts:

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 10:52

Given the fact the OP was very drunk and had smoked a joint which she hadn't done before and had previously said to the boyfriend that she wanted to wait to have sex, don't you think that any decent human being would have considered this before having sex with her?

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 10:53

Rape - a man forcibly penetrating a woman's vagina with his penis against her will; when she has categorically said no or is completely unconscious so unable to say no

So the latter applies here Dolce, yes?

MrsReacher1 · 04/10/2018 10:56

Do you know that you had sex - or did he just say that he did? (I've certainly known men to lie about it)

Justgivemeasoddingname · 04/10/2018 10:59

Greatduck yes- you're right but that's not rape is it? It is immoral and wrong but that's not the same. As I said, I believe the word rape is used far too often.

Original poster

BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 11:01

@MrsReacher1 without giving TMI, im sure when i went to the loo then the evidence of sex was there... which surprised me as we hadn't even had the conversation about contraception yet, he could have got me pregnant if i didn't have the implant.

OP posts:

eelbecomingforyou · 04/10/2018 11:03

Did you know that you had sex? Did you feel sore, etc. in the morning? He could have been lying.

If he wasn't lying, then yes it was rape. If you're unconscious, you can't consent.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 11:07

Justgivemeasoddingname what's not rape?

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 11:09

I know the years have gone by and you don't want to make this a legal case but I think in court- in theory- it would not stand up as rape.

As others have said, you have a memory deficit.

You would be asked at what point did you last recall your actions. Do you remember walking from the pub to his house? could you have consented, but forgotten you had? Logically, you could forget you HAD consented just as much as you think you had NOT consented.

I suspect you did not consent, but as you cannot recall the events, it's impossible for anyone to be sure what you said or didn't say.

Did you ever ask him if you'd agreed to it?

You could have consented by not resisting or even giving the impression it was ok if you were off your head. If you went along with it, he could have taken that as consent.

I think the crux of this is he knew you had not consented before, so he did, we assume, use your intoxication to his advantage- but equally, you may have agreed and forgotten you had.

SoloD · 04/10/2018 11:09

Look at this another way.

If you pass out or are asleep and someone takes all the money out of your purse and walks off with it, is that robbery?

Or say you get drunk and fall over, and someone kicks you in the head repeatedly, should that be considered assault?

Rape is sex without consent.

Lovemusic33 · 04/10/2018 11:10

Not necessarily rape and wouldn’t stand up in court.

You were not forced to drink or smoke a joint? You don’t know if you conceited to sex? There’s no proof he raped you without consent as you may have consented whilst under the influence.

People are too fast to say the word ‘rape’, as someone who has been raped several times I find this worrying. To me (and to the police that interviewed me) rape is when someone forces you to have intercourse when you have not cocented, when you have said ‘no’ and they have ignored you. Yes you may have said ‘no’ a few days before but you don’t know that you said ‘no’ that night?

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 11:11

This website has been made in a rush but my point is its advice from police.
Most police forces have similar.

www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/consent

Missingstreetlife · 04/10/2018 11:11

I thought there was (is?) a concept of being too drunk to consent (unconscious included). If too drunk to remember, how do you know if you were awake? Probably too drunk to consent. Has anyone got a link to the hollyoaks video?
Where is your definition from? Opinion is not relevant, rape is a legal term, probably be a lawyer along to verify soon, or we could google it.
He did behave badly, he did coerce and abuse you, whether it's rape in court, or not.
Be nice to yourself.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 11:11

It's a myth you have to say no for it to be rape but op did say no repeatedly

Lovemusic33 · 04/10/2018 11:12

OP does not know if he did it whilst she was passed out or wether she was awake and contented ? She doesn’t know and will probably never know if it was rape or not. She can call it what she wants to herself but if she went to the police there would be no proof of anything

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 11:13

Think about it - do we usually issue a direct and outright 'no' in social situations?
www.researchgate.net/publication/249713042_Just_Say_No_The_Use_of_Conversation_Analysis_in_Developing_a_Feminist_Perspective_on_Sexual_Refusal

catherinep80 · 04/10/2018 11:14

I was surprised to read that "drunken consent is still consent". I wouldn't have thought that would be the case. Makes it a very grey area and very easy for a guy to assault a woman knowing that she's too drunk to remember the next day whether she gave consent or not. In answer OP's question I do believe that was rape though.

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 11:15

Can you accept that you may have kissed and cuddled as you had done before....and you gave the impression you were ok about it going further?

But as you cannot recall the events, he may have asked 'Is this okay?' and in your state from drink and drugs, you may have said 'Mmmmmm...' and he took that as 'yes'.

As another poster has said, it was your responsibility to control your drink and drug use and not get into a situation where you were so stoned you can't control your actions. I don't mean you were at fault, but equally I could see a man's life being ruined by a woman giving out mixed messages and it all being a huge misunderstanding.

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 11:16

It's a myth you have to say no for it to be rape but op did say no repeatedly

That's not what she said.

She said she had said no on previous occasions. On this occasion she cna't remember if she said yes or no!

knittingdad · 04/10/2018 11:16

@DolceFarNiente - Thanks for giving a clear answer.

I think the difference in my view is that by requiring a categorical no you effectively produce a presumption of consent. I think that in general it's better to assume that consent has not been given unless indicated otherwise.

This is the difference between "yes means yes" and "no means no".

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 11:18

As another poster has said, it was your responsibility to control your drink and drug use and not get into a situation where you were so stoned you can't control your actions

What actions?

safetyfreak · 04/10/2018 11:19

He got her drunk and high so she would be so out of it that she would consent to sex.

Or did you consent? You could been so out of it that you were just laying there unconscious.

You will never know if you consented or not. I had nights out where I have blacked out, not remembered parts of the nights.

It's impossible to know if it was rape or not in this instance.

Justgivemeasoddingname · 04/10/2018 11:19

Greatduck this
Given the fact the OP was very drunk and had smoked a joint which she hadn't done before and had previously said to the boyfriend that she wanted to wait to have sex, don't you think that any decent human being would have considered this before having sex with her?

Yes you're right, he wasn't a decent human being but this cannot be classed as rape.

DC18 · 04/10/2018 11:20

I'm so sorry this happened to you OP
I think it's definitely rape as you were too incapacitated to give consent. Have you seen the new adverts about this? It's a young woman and man that are drunk and the woman passes out and man has sex with her. The young man is watching through a window screaming "no" obviously knowing what his drunk self is doing is wrong.
Tbh I don't know If you would be able to successfully prosecute as (very wrongly) defense lawyers would use the fact you went back to his and chose to drink and take the joint as a defence.
However, I think you should try and get some support to deal with this and perhaps speaking to Rape crisis or another charity may help give you some closure.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 11:21

Of course it can if the OP didn't consent to it!

purpleme12 · 04/10/2018 11:30

But we don't know if she consented in that moment cos she doesn't remember?

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