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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Was this Rape? (possible trigger?)

86 replies

BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 09:40

First post here so be gentle but I want to know if you think IABU to consider this as rape…

Few years back, seeing a boy, early stages (around 1-2 months)
He kept asking for sex but I kept saying no, over and over again, as I felt like it could be a potential relationship and I didn’t want to ‘ruin’ it by sleeping together too soon (tbf this should have been my first warning but hey ho, young and stupid I guess)
I stayed round his house a couple times, but I stuck to my guns and only kissing/cuddling happened.
There was then a night out at the local pub with friends, he kept buying me drinks but we were all pretty drunk and having a good night, fast forward to the end and I’m back at his, he has given me a joint (I don’t usually smoke so this knocked me for 6 on top of the alcohol) I’m so high/drunk I don’t even remember going to bed.
Wake up and he tells me we had ‘sex’ when we got into bed.

I’m not looking to use this thread as a means to prosecute, it’s just something that’s always played on my mind since it happened and I would like some opinions as I’ve not openly shared it to people in my life. I feel because we were seeing each other and I stayed at his – I can see why he may feel I consented to this?? shortly after this I stopped seeing him as I felt betrayed. I would just like to know if you would class this as rape? Because I had said multiple times while sober I didn’t want to sleep together until we were ‘official’, but he waited until I was completely inebriated to take his chance when I couldn’t even keep my eyes open.

Thanks for reading

OP posts:

purpleme12 · 04/10/2018 11:31

Just cos she doesn't remember doesn't mean she was unconscious

jay55 · 04/10/2018 11:33

He told her first thing they'd had sex, he knew she didn't know/wouldn't remember.

Idontbelieveinthemoon · 04/10/2018 11:36

I'd consider it rape.

I also don't buy into the 'blurred lines' thing that Dolce has mentioned. There are no blurred lines with sex; either the person wants to actively, enthusiastically take part in sex or you shouldn't be having sex with them.

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 11:41

I think people are jumping to the rape accusation far too quickly.

It's quite possible @Backtoneverland that you murmured 'Yes' or 'Mmm' or nodded your head AND YOU CANNOT REMEMBER DOING THAT.

Once, and only once, years ago I had my drinks spiked (bought doubles not singles by his friends- maybe trying to be generous not malicious) and cannot recall walking from the pub to my boyfriend's car and ending up at his house (his parents were in at the time.)

I could have been asked anything by him- I'd not have remembered- and said anything in reply.

Equally, I could have not been asked - I'd never know, would I!

I could have told him he was the most wonderful boy ever and I wanted to have sex with him - how could I know otherwise?

HelenMummyof2 · 04/10/2018 11:41

If you are too intoxicated to consent then this is rape.

Lizzie48 · 04/10/2018 11:47

The problem is that the OP doesn't even know whether sex even took place at all, that's what he told her, but he could easily have been lying about it. If sex did take place, he was a right creep to take advantage of you. As to whether it was rape or not, it's impossible to say as you don't remember enough about it.

There's no way this would get anywhere if reported to the police, sorry.

You've clearly had a traumatic few years, I'm so sorry to hear about your sibling committing suicide. I hope you're getting the help you need.

UpstartCrow · 04/10/2018 11:52

If you are so drunk you can't give meaningful consent to sign a contract or drive a car, or remember anything the next day; then you cant give consent. That's not sex. Its rape.
There are no blurred lines and some rape apologists on this thread.

You said 'no', you wanted to wait. You should have been able to trust him.

He is a predator who gets women drunk and stoned so he can get sex. He doesn't care about them or consent.
She was so stoned she cant remember anything, but he was so sober he was capable of performing. He managed the entire evening.

OP, I hope you find answers and get the help you need

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 12:19

If you are so drunk you can't give meaningful consent to sign a contract or drive a car, or remember anything the next day; then you cant give consent.

The point is she cannot remember if she gave consent or not.

Is this so hard to grasp?

she did not want to have sex with him before- she wanted to wait but did go some of the way with cuddles.

Who are we to know if on the night in question, she decided, 'ok I want to have sex' ? She cannot remember what she said- yes OR no!!!!

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 04/10/2018 12:21

That really isn't the point.

He wanted sex. She said no. He got her drunk in an attempt to make her more pliant.
She was so drunk she couldn't remember anything.
That isn't tipsy.
That's drunk enough that she was not capable of consent.

Wow people seem to put so much energy into defending rapists. What's to gain?

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 12:23

Wow people seem to put so much energy into defending rapists

Exactly what I've been thinking reading this thread.

ButchyRestingFace · 04/10/2018 12:26

Sounds like you were drunk/high to the point of possible unconsciousness.

Obviously very unwise but one would hope a decent person would not have sex with you in this state, particularly one who a) knows that you have previously stated you don't want sex at this stage in the relationship and b) doesn't bother to use BC.

So yeah, rape. What else could it be? You're well rid of that one.

Haireverywhere · 04/10/2018 12:30

If you were so inebriated you could not give consent and he had sex with you then I think yes (but I'm not a police officer or solicitor). Just because lots of other people were "taken advantage of" as other put it or don't believe they were raped because they can't quite remember what they agreed to whilst drunk doesn't change anything about what happened to you or how you perceive it. Your perception is what really matters not anyone else's, given you're just trying to make sense of this but not take action.

Obviously the legal aspects of consent and alchohol consumption are very complex.

UpstartCrow · 04/10/2018 12:32

QueenoftheNights

I recently had surgery under sedation. For the following 24 hours, if I bought anything online or signed a contract, it was void. I was not legally considered capable of giving consent.
Even though I was walking and talking apparently coherently, the law recognised that as I was in a different state of mind. I could not consent to anything even though my mouth was capable of saying the word 'yes'.

If you have repeatedly said 'no' to someone and they get you high to have sex with you, you have not given consent. They do not have a reasonable expectation of consent.

Racecardriver · 04/10/2018 12:32

It really depends on how drunk/high he was. If he was able to realise that you were too out of it to consent (even if you seemed willing at the time) then yes it was rape. But if he was also pretty drunk/stones to the poibt where he couldn't judge how drunk you were then no. Regardless its a rubbish experience to have

milkytea · 04/10/2018 12:38

Doesn't really cover the exact situation OP but might help to clean up the confusion maybe?

Bibijayne · 04/10/2018 13:09

Yes, OP,this was rape. I'm very sorry for what you went through.

Scrapper142 · 04/10/2018 13:16

We hold people responsible for their drunk actions. Saying I was so drunk I couldn't give meaningful consent to drive a car doesn't mean that if you're caught driving drunk you get away with it.

It cuts both ways.

I was raped by a man who the next morning (claimed) to have been so drunk he couldn't remember it. Is he no longer responsible? Believe me he made a decision and knew what he was doing at the time so I don't give a shit whether he remembered it or not.

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 13:29

Upstartcrow I really don't see what having a GA and the after effects has to do with this. It's a ridiculous analogy.

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 13:30

Also, HE did not 'get her high'- she willingly drank and smoked a joint with intent.Why are you so keen to read into this things that are either not there or bending the facts? Thank god you aren't a QC!

QueenoftheNights · 04/10/2018 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster

BacktoNeverland · 04/10/2018 13:38

@QueenoftheNights sorry but I have to interject here

*what I meant above-' scuse error- was he did not get her drunk or high with intent to have sex. He didn't hold her down and force her to a) drink or b) smoke a joint.

She was capable of saying no to both.*

Youre right, I said yes to alcohol and the joint because I wanted to and that was my decision at the time. But I repeatedly told him I did not want to have sex beforehand

OP posts:

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 04/10/2018 13:51

Being drunk or high is not a green light to say you're up for sex ffs!

DolceFarNiente · 04/10/2018 13:55

Wow people seem to put so much energy into defending rapists

I wasn't aware he was a convicted rapist. Who made you judge and jury? In your opinion he's a "rapist" and some of us believe otherwise as we don'thave more informatio. Since when has opinion become fact? Jeez...

Babycham1979 · 04/10/2018 14:00

Lots of ideologically-driven projection going on here. The OP doesn't know if she consented, so random MN readers certainly can't. For all we/the OP know, she could've pounced on him and initiated sex and he could've been wholly reluctant.

This infantilisation fo women it utterly regressive and Victorian. Such weird, repressed prudishness is anti-feminist and anti-women. Women are as culpable as men for their actions when drunk, whether that's having sex or driving a car. Rape is an appalling crime, but this blurring of the lines does nobody any good.

Smellyoulateralligator · 04/10/2018 15:52

I disagree QueenoftheNights, Upstart’s analogy is spot on. Far from ridiculous in fact.

Backtonever I’m sorry this happened. You were consistent in stating you didn’t want to start a sexual relationship with him at that time.

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