to wonder if anyone would defend self ID for individuals like this? *tw trans related*

[TalkingintheDark]

So, those of you who believe that TWAW, do you agree that this person is a woman?

If so, by what markers are they a woman?

If not, by what markers are they not: where is the line you draw?

And if you support self ID, would you be happy with this individual being able to access women’s toilets, changing rooms, sexual abuse support groups?

Do you think that this person should serve their prison sentence in the female estate?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

I am really interested to know how you think about this sort of case, if you genuinely believe that TWAW.

They are no more a woman than I am a llama.

There's already a thread about this arsehole.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3381728-AIBU-to-say-this-person-shouldnt-be-allowed

Well, that’s you off to the gulag then.

That was to Ikeameatballs, btw.

Thanks randomchap, I hadn’t seen it. Always room for another though, eh.

And seriously. I would love someone who sincerely believes that TWAW to come and break it down for me as to how this person is (or isn’t?) a woman.

That's a 14 year old boy who panicked when arrested and claimed to be a woman.

Oh yes, of course it is.

But no one explaining to me how this person is (or isn’t) a woman? @RatRolyPoly, where are you when we need you? Come and make sense of all this for us. Please.

I can’t see anybody taking this person seriously as a woman. But then there’s a line of sex offenders behind him claiming to be women too. Great stride forward for women and kids safety this self id lark.

Isn’t it just.

Makes all the focus on safeguarding these days seem a little hollow, somehow.

Yes where's rat when you need them...

Strange that none of the usual suspects have posted confirming they are a woman because feelz.

I know they are in the minority, but still......

A man. A dangerous, perverted, abusive man. Apparently this never happens... and yet here we are... again

@NoProbLlama78 that's a 41 year old man, not a 14 year old boy! I think you misread the headline.

As is being discussed on the Feminist boards. A man who identifies as a woman pretending to be a teenage boy! World gone mad!

see this is where self ID strikes out

because they are actually all women, orr none of them are. Self ID means we have to 100% take the word from the mouth of the speaker. There is no test, no gatekeeping, no mental health assesment, no review board who says 'actually, no I think you are just a kinkster'

No fake trans. No true trans. The truth is in the mouth of the woman who declares their womanliness. No degrees of seperation.

The history of the person has nothing to do with it. The presentation of the person has nothing to do with it. Whether they pass, whether they fail so badly you want to scream, whether they act demurely and dainty, whether they scream 'die terf scum', whether they have worked for the good of their fellow sisters (I actually am yet to see too many who do this) or whether they have a string of sexual offences and ask you to suck on their lady dick.

And as for safeguarding. Well, as soon as a man utters the words, well, we know that all the main organisations seem to think that magically makes all and every one of those people suddenly take on the offending rate of the opposit sex along with their new name, and there is no risk whatsoever.

Jacinta here. Maybe she fancies being a Tawny Owl when she comes out of the nick. Maybe she just wont bother to ring that special hotline number thats reserved just for those who want to maintain their gender history privacy, but doesnt seem to be compulsory, when applying for a DBS (although of course in Jacintas case, he was an idiot for allowing himself to be arrested under that name, should have changed it post imprisonment)

There seems to be a huge amount of trust here being given under the name of self ID. And of course we know that the men that the women were worried about, the men who are abusers, who are sex offenders, who are paedophiles, are exactly the kind of men who's words you can trust.

FFS people. If you havent filled in the government consultation, get the hell on with it. Yes its boring. Yes its uneccasarily complicated, but if you dont do it, you will be complicit to people like Jacinta here having free access to any womens space he wants

@Fucknuggets - it was sort of my point that self ID allows them to be whoever they want and it really doesn't work.

When’s the consultation deadline?

the world has gone bonkers

19 October is the deadline. You can save your progress. You dont have to answer all the questions. I believe questions 11-17 are the biggies (I havent done it yet, its the top of this weeks to do list)

Then show this 'woman' to everyone you know and get them to do it too. Even your granny. Grannies get really pissed about this sort of stuff.

We have more than enough voices on MN to be heard

I’ll do the consultation, but i’m Too scared of the bigot accusations to share it :-(

I am quite ignorant of all the issues regarding the trans self ID debate, and I'm sure I'll be corrected forthwith! However I don't see in this instance that identifying as a woman would make any difference to what this person has done, I'm disgusted as I'm sure most are, but I'd be just as disgusted if this were a biological man, biological woman trans man, trans woman or they identified as a rabbit, makes no difference to what they have done.
However if the self ID is being used to gain access to a women's prison to serve the sentence, or will be used in some other way to avoid the concequences of what they have done, or avoid the sanctions placed after sentence by way of changing names etc then nope, absolutely not. Should be a condition of the sentence.

I was chatting to two trans woman on twitter earlier about this and about the Karen white case. Both were absolutely fucking horrified that this kind of thing was allowed to happen and just as scared of this kind of predator using self
ID to get to them as we are we started a conversation disagreeing with each other (about the Leeds meeting cancellation) and ended up in strong agreement, thanks to arseholes like this person. The abuse of self
ID is going to absolutely fuck with genuinely trans women AND women and it’s terrifying.

The safeguarding aspect really is extraordinary. All safeguarding nowadays focuses on “think the unthinkable, it could happen here, you can’t be 100% sure of anyone except yourself, the safety of the child is paramount”.

We know that child abusers come from every conceivable background: every culture, every class, every religion, every nationality, every sexuality. And both sexes; but predominantly, overwhelmingly, majority male. We know that the demographic of child abusers is that there is no demographic, except that they’re vastly more likely to be male than female.

We are aware of the multiple and devious ways in which children are groomed, in which men (usually men) seek access to vulnerable prey. We are constantly uncovering new layers of child abuse that people have been pretending weren’t happening for far too long, and we are supposed to be doing our level best to ensure that children are actually SAFE these days.

And yet when it comes to the magic word “trans” it seems that all this knowledge and experience and care is turned on its head. Suggesting that even a single (male) trans person might be a child abuser, or that even a single (male) non-trans child abuser might dishonestly claim to be trans in order to facitilate their abusing, is apparently on a similar level of evil to wishing to exterminate all gay people, for example. Only the most heinous, hate-ridden, hollow-hearted bigot could imagine that could ever be the case, and seek to protect against it. To keep children safe.

Even when there are documented cases, like this one, of child abusers who claim to be transgender, it is somehow further proof not of the reality of the danger but of our deep and incorrigible bigotry if we point them out.

And many of the agencies making the most noise about safeguarding in general are the very ones colluding with this astronomical level of denial when it comes to this demographic, apparently the ONE exception to all safeguarding wisdom and experience, the ONE time we are supposed to do the exact opposite of what the very same agencies are telling us to do the rest of the time, and trust those (male) people who are trans, or who say they are trans, implicitly. All of them. All the time. In all circumstances.

How the fuck does anyone square this in their own mind? How much cognitive dissonance do you have to be capable of to do this? And how little do you really care about KEEPING CHILDREN SAFE if this is your approach?

Not only is he definitely not a woman, he is so ugly he looks like a monster from a child's fairy tale book. I nearly screamed when I clicked on the link and saw his face.

Yeuch.