To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

[Lweji]

I thought there was evidence that the money branch of Al Qaeda had advanced sold stock to purchase on the day of the attack. Because they knew of it.
Is that supposed to be a conspiracy theory? I though it was well established that they used it to finance themselves. Investigators tend to follow the money.

Lots of investors bet on selling stock that they only purchase the next day. Some/many will have done it on that day, anyway.
Surely people can build conspiracy theories around it, but does it stack up to scrutiny?

[AssignedNorthernAtBirth]

Remember Shannon Matthews?

Yes. Which was a faked kidnap attempt with the child held nearby, purely for the purpose of extorting money, and which lasted all of a couple of weeks before the wheels came off. It certainly didn't involve continual involvement of the world's media and attempts to keep a high profile for 11 and a half years and counting. And frankly, if the McCanns did have her stashed somewhere waiting for the big reveal, the shit or get off the pot point was reached a long time ago.

Also accounts for why our lifestyle and culture is much closer to the American way than to our near neighbours in Europe.

You don't think that might be due to us having colonised them? I must say, it's a new one on me that a society founded by settlers from another society required a conspiracy theory to explain similarities between the two.

[user1457017537]

There was an article in Vanity Fair re a group of traders celebrating with champagne as the buildings were collapsing and the enormous loss of life. It is well documented. I also found it surprising that the owner of the Twin Towers who took breakfast every morning at the restaurant at the top was not in that morning, neither were his sons and daughters. Ok could have been a family holiday, but there were certainly anomalies. Also the FBI turned up in radiation proof hazmat suits and the fireman thought after what did they know that they didn’t share. Firemen and police officers then developed leukaemia and cancers similar to exposure to radiation.

[Chesterfieldsofa]

You don't think that might be due to us having colonised them? I must say, it's a new one on me that a society founded by settlers from another society required a conspiracy theory to explain similarities between the two.


But that's the whole point - the colonies fought for their independence from the British, it was a huge big war lasting for over 7 years that nobody in the UK ever knows much about because we lost. To be fair the lovely American lady who asked me how the English celebrate Independence Day possibly wasn't the most informed either .

And so to the conspiracy - not only did we lose, we lost so badly that we're are now in the 'special relationship' and enjoy of the benefits of the American compensation culture, obesity, materialism etc and also have to follow them to any crazy war.

[AssignedNorthernAtBirth]

That makes absolutely no sense though. The fact that they fought for their independence doesn't mean they stopped having significant cultural similarities to the UK. The language for a start! And the UK continued to send substantial numbers of immigrants to the US long after the colonies became independent.

Plus the US is/has been the most significant superpower on the planet for decades now, which is why there are many more countries than us that they exert a lot of influence on.

[Chesterfieldsofa]

It doesn't have to make sense to you - it's a conspiracy theory. The fact that the US took many UK immigrants and trade dramatically increased AFTER the Declaration of Independence only furthers the theory that we ARE bound by them!

The War happened here as well - there's a shipwreck from a battle just off Flamborough Head in Yorkshire. It was a big war that we generally know little about.

[AssignedNorthernAtBirth]

It doesn't have to make sense to you - it's a conspiracy theory.

Lmao can't argue with that!

The fact that the US took many UK immigrants and trade dramatically increased AFTER the Declaration of Independence only furthers the theory that we ARE bound by them!

How? It increases the theory that we are culturally similar because so many of us went there.

[Davespecifico]

It’s making me chuckle that on a thread about the dubious nature of conspiracy theorists, there are conspiracy theorists coming on sharing their conspiracy theories.

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

’s making me chuckle that on a thread about the dubious nature of conspiracy theorists, there are conspiracy theorists coming on sharing their conspiracy theories.

Yes, it's weird to think there's otherwise normal people wandering around with this crazy nonsense in their heads.

[Lweji]

It's a case of qed.

[flipflopping]

Haven't RTFT- apologies if this has already been mentioned- but there is some fascinating research re the psychology of conspiracy theories, particularly re people who have difficulty dealing with uncertainty and complexity for whom belief in conspiracy theories is a sort of defence mechanism- they actually find it (subconsciously) more comforting to believe that there is an organising intelligence behind bad things happening in the world, even if that organising intelligence is malign, rather than to accept that bad things happen for reasons we can't explain or quantify. So it's more comforting, for them, to imagine that Princess Diana was murdered than that a young woman can suddenly and randomly die in a car crash, or that the government controls our minds through contrails rather than that we're all just on our own doing our best. When more people believed in God, that belief could fill the role. These days, with fewer people believing in God, some people need to fill the gap.

[theendofeverything]

I do think there is something iffy about the explanation for the crash that killed Diana. If Henri Paul was pissed, why did Diana and Dodi get into the car? Even if he didn't appear pissed he would have smelt of alcohol.

I think conspiracy theories are mostly harmless, except in the case of MM and other serious stuff like holocaust denial.

[theendofeverything]

flipflopping that's interesting, I think there might be something in that. The unpredictability of life can be quite frightening, so trying to find reason in the randomness is an understandable reaction.

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

I do think there is something iffy about the explanation for the crash that killed Diana. If Henri Paul was pissed, why did Diana and Dodi get into the car?

Why does anyone get into the car with a pissed driver? Obviously the people who could answer the question are dead, given that she'd probably been drinking herself and wasn't renown for displaying the best judgement in general, it doesn't seem particularly unusual.

[theendofeverything]

@EmperorTomatoRetchup, it does seem unusual to me. I would never get in a car with a driver who was pissed, even if I'd been drinking myself (and have refused lifts in this situation. You say Diana had "probably" been drinking, but that's an assumption on your part!

[Yourenotericlove]

His Dr had prescribed him Acamprosate due to concerns about his very heavy drinking. He may have had increased tolerance to alcohol so didn't seem pissed.

[theendofeverything]

Yes he may not have seemed pissed, but he would have smelt of drink, he was three times over the French limit. Maybe Dodi and Diana had both been drinking though and so they may not have smelled it because of that.

It's just something that I have mused on over the years...

[Yourenotericlove]

Chewing gum, polos, air freshener in the car - numerous reasons why he may not have smelled of drink.

[ChicagoLil]

Diana didn't drink alcohol.

[theendofeverything]

Yourenotericlove, none of that really masks the smell though, people just think it does.

[Geraldine170]

Diana did drink alcohol, very little, but she had the occasional glass of champagne. She hadn’t drunk that night though neither had she.

And was drinking Pastis which stinks.

[Geraldine170]

Henri Paul I meant was drinking Pastis. And there are literally dozens of people who have said publicly that she was obsessive about wearing her seat belt and making sure those around her were wearing theirs, even in normal circumstances, let alone a high speed chase with the paps!

[Yourenotericlove]

I don't understand why people can't accept perfectly reasonable explanations for events instead of extremely unlikely occurrences.

He was 3 times over the limit. As found at PM. Or was there not a PM and it was faked? Or there was a PM but the coroner, their assistants and all the lab techs were lying? And never told anyone. Despite the multiple thousands of pounds they could make selling that kind of evidence to the media?

Or were they paid off? By who? Just how many people do you think would need to be involved to cover up? Dozens at least, including senior government officials (it would have to be).

Or was he pissed and they didn't smell it or didn't care? That's more likely surely?

[PiperPublickOccurrences]

That's where it all starts to fall apart with conspiracy theories. In the Diana case the simplest explanation is - drink driver loses control of high powered car and slams it into a pillar.

That's the most plausible explanation. All the stuff about Mi6, Mossad and Prince Philip are all very entertaining, but total tosh. I remember at the time Diana's friends being forced to deny she was pregnant as there was so much speculation about it. What her family must have thought about that....