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To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

401 replies

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 21:37

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

OP posts:
Gersemi · 01/10/2018 22:27

There's a major difference between keeping up a pretence of looking for a child and launching an all-out publicity campaign to try to find her. No-one would have blamed MM's parents for keeping their heads down.

Chesterfieldsofa · 01/10/2018 23:11

The only conspiracy theory that I can almost believe in is that of the American War of Independence. The theory is basically that we didn't just lose the colonies as such, but we were beaten so badly that we we're actually a 'secret state' without full control of our own country and as such have the 'special bond' with the US which is why they finally had to come to our aid in WW2. Also accounts for why our lifestyle and culture is much closer to the American way than to our near neighbours in Europe. Just to bring it completely up to date, we were 'allowed' to join the European Union for a few years, but now have to pull out ....

Yes, very far fetched, but I've done a bit of a research a couple of times over the years (a long time before 'Brexit' was coined) and often internet articles seem to disappear, further fuelling the conspiracy.

PlatypusPie · 01/10/2018 23:27

There was an attempt to discredit someone famous a few years ago, which gained a lot of traction online and got some people very excited about the convoluted trail which apparently proved the case against the person. ( This was political, not something like child abuse)

All kinds of coincidence, drawing together of apparently unrelated but possible facts, an untimely accidental death of a minor player, an unconventional lifestyle of another, were all melded together to build a somewhat possible scenario to anyone who wanted to believe badly of the person.

I read it all with interest because it turned out I knew ( in real life) one of the people who was described as being key to the underlying deception. Except that it wasn’t true. The timelines were all wrong, names were mixed up and errors made about location. The twisted version of the story got repeated and then earlier versions were used as reference and proof for the later ones - it took on a life of its own.

It caused quite a lot of distress to the person I knew - it’s quite hard to refute a conspiracy theory in full flood, because the response is ‘ well, you would say that ‘.

Made me very cynical about amateur cyber sleuths and the political chancers who happily exploited this tissue of lies.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 00:22

Also accounts for why our lifestyle and culture is much closer to the American way than to our near neighbours in Europe.

Which is totally strange, considering that England colonised most of the US. And the two counties are linked by a common language that isn't spoken in Mainland Europe.
Is France also supposed to be a sub-state of New Orleans? Wink

Can you imagine the actual head of state of the UK being Donald Trump? GrinGrinGrin

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 02/10/2018 00:41

In the days when there wasn't even colour TV

There was colour TV in 1969.

OP posts:
user1457017537 · 02/10/2018 01:29

In 1969 we had telexes. Fax hadn’t been invented until the late 1970s. Car phones were late 70s as well. A man on the moon does seem a bit implausible. IBM was the biggest computer company and computers were HUGE. I know governments have always had the latest technology years before the public but it is quite a stretch.

SwanConvoy · 02/10/2018 03:31

With regard to Jimmy Saville, he was almost certainly a psychopath. I read an interesting article recently that explained how so many psychopaths get away with crime and other horrendous behaviour for so long. They are incredible people readers and manipulators and rely heavily on 'apathetic' individuals to go through life undetected.

We don't like to think it but most of the population are pretty apathetic - we don't like to rock the boat. We don't like to kick up a fuss in case we are wrong or it backfires on us. We might hear rumours about someone but we don't like to believe them - or be the person that takes a stand. Especially if we see others doing exactly the same. Jimmy must be ok, he is friends with Prince Charles etc...

You do get empathetic people who will take a stand, raise the alarm - push for justice but these are in the minority and are often disbelieved. Or the psychopath, using manipulation easily discredits such people.

This is why people like Jimmy get away with what he did for so long...

sashh · 02/10/2018 06:23

I love a good conspiracy theory, but it has to have some plausibility.

When I was watching the first “moon landing” in 1969 aged 12 I told my mother that it was fake filmed in a hollywood studio. I don’t remember this but she did. Not seen any evidence to disprove my initial thought

Adding to Gersemi

What about Apollo 13 Would you really fake a disaster?

There is a mirror on the moon left by astronauts, you can beam a laser to it and it reflects back.

The position of the moon relative to the earth meant that TV signals had to be routed via Australia. Quite an achievement to fake signals from space.

There's a lot to suggest that the US government had prior information about both Pearl Harbour and 9/11. Particularly with 9/11, some of that is in the official documentation.

9/11 - there are questions that need answering eg the stock market and who benefited.

Some of the theories are just cuckoo though, loose change uses photos of Osama Bin Ladin eating with his right hand as proof he was replaced/the photos are fake because he was left handed. Completely ignoring the fact that Muslims eat with their right had regardless of whether they are right or left handed.

Pearl Harbour - if the US didn't know then it should have. They had been supplying fuel to the Japanese and then stopped. Japan needed fuel from somewhere and wan't going to sit back and give up.

Gersemi · 02/10/2018 06:34

The first modern commercialised fax machine was produced in 1964, but the principle had been around for some time before that.

SamanthaBrique · 02/10/2018 06:35

I didn't grow up in the U.K. with Top of the Pops or Jim'll Fix It, but when the revelations about Jimmy Savile came out I wasn't surprised as I kind of just assumed he was a perve. He looked massively creepy, and I don't know how he managed to get so far on children's tv as I'd have never let my kids within 10ft of him!

TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 07:17

Like the moon landing. Loads of people would have to know about it.

Loads of people involved in the ‘moon landings’ died in suspicious circumstances. Not saying I believe the conspiracies but their deaths were real.

TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 07:19

Do you have an idea of how hard it is to fake moonwalking in gravity?

If you speed the footage up, they are walking normally.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 07:23

If you speed the footage up, they are walking normally.

You can't speed up lack of gravity.

TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 07:27

You can't speed up lack of gravity.

I think the point is that they ARE walking normally ina studio or whatever, but the footage is speeded up to make them look like they’re walking on the moon.

TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 07:28

Sorry, I meant SLOWED DOWN so that they look like they’re walking on the moon.

Again, not saying I believe these theories, but it does make you wonder...

Lweji · 02/10/2018 07:32

I'm sorry, but that shows lack of knowledge.
Lack of gravity doesn't just slow down movement. That's why most films supposedly in low gravity are often made fun of.

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 02/10/2018 07:37

Again, not saying I believe these theories, but it does make you wonder...

Not really.

OP posts:
TheMythicalChicken · 02/10/2018 07:38

You’re still missing the point. If you speed the footage up of them ‘walking on the moon’, they appear to be walking normally. Hence the theory that they were filmed walking in a studio and that footage was slowed down so that it looked like they were walking on the moon.

MilkItTilITurnItIntoCheese · 02/10/2018 07:44

I haven’t read the fill thread yet - just about to - but one thing that springs to mind is that it’s just as crazy to believe everything we are told by mass media as it is to talk about/believe in conspiracies. Really we should be questioning things because we are not always told the truth by those we trust (news etc I mean not people we are close to). Whether we believe them is our own choice. Perhaps we believe one conspiracy but not another. The fact is that with most of these subjects we will likely never know the actual truths.

Ifailed · 02/10/2018 07:48

there was 380 kg of rocks returned from the moon. Any competent geologist with a lab can tell you there are not from the earth.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 07:53

I've just been watching parts of the full transmission and they don't look like walking normally at all. It's a different way of moving. Barely lifting feet or bending legs, because in low gravity if you did, you'd be jumping.

bellinisurge · 02/10/2018 07:55

Yeah it's all a big fake and after ALL these years no one has come forward. Riiiigghhhht.

Lweji · 02/10/2018 08:01

But, you see, NASA managed to broadcast live a fake video because they knew the actual live footage wouldn't work.
Presumably the Australians were on it too. And all the ground crew knew they were looking at nothing while directing the astronauts via fake videos.

Neither the fake landing nor the fake late video stand up to scrutiny or logic.

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 02/10/2018 08:03

Really we should be questioning things because we are not always told the truth by those we trust

There's a healthy middle ground between believing everything and wilfully ignoring screeds of compelling evidence that say the earth isn't flat or that the moon landings were genuine and the holocaust did happen as you've looked at something in isolation or not understood the wider context.

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 02/10/2018 08:37

If the moon landings were fake then Russia would have said so by now, also Japan released third party photos of the moon landing so any conspiracy about it now is boarding on wilful ignorance.

There is a balance to be had, MKUltra, goverments dragnetting all internet traffic was considered a conspiracy theory amongst many other things, we are an inquisitive species so things do usually come out in the end. Sometimes those who are so into conspiracy theories reject any counter evidence or just still think there is a smaller conspiracy, like the money on 9/11 etc.

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