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MNHQ have commented on this thread

AIBU?

To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

401 replies

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 21:37

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

OP posts:

Report

karyatide · 30/09/2018 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OatsBeansBarley · 30/09/2018 23:32

William the Conqueror was the invader surely?

The Plantagenets had Maud / Mathilda, daughter of the king as their female ancestor . Surely on Mumsnet we'd be team Mathilda rather than team Stephen?!

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 30/09/2018 23:38

I've read a theory about the moon landings that kind of explains both theories neatly.

The moon landings happened, but they fucked up the tv feed. Rather than disappoint the millions of people watching at home - they recreated it in a studio hoping no one would ever notice

It's a plausible explanation that allows us to acknowledge that the moon landings did happen, but also acknowledges some of the anomalous evidence that people cite to prove it was faked.

Lweji · 01/10/2018 00:35

The problem with some conspiracy theories is that the huge number of people required for them would mean that someone would have spilled the beans by now.

Conspiracies only work well if shared by only two or three people. Even so...

Like the moon landing. Loads of people would have to know about it.

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 01/10/2018 00:40

My point about my alternative moon landing theory (which i'm kind of tongue in cheek throwing in here) is that the moon landings having really happened AND the footage being filmed in a studio aren't mutually exclusive. They could both be true.

So - for that conspiracy to work, you'd need the actual astronauts to be in on it, since they'd probably have known the cameras weren't working, and would know on watching the footage that it wasn't them - and the 'actors' and producers in the studio. So that's a handful of people, half of whom if not all of whom work for NASA so are probably pretty good at keeping secrets.

It holds up! I'm having it!

Gwenhwyfar · 01/10/2018 00:41

I wouldn't say lazy. It takes a lot of imagination to believe some of this stuff. I think they're often quite intelligent people, but lacking an outlet for it, a bit like anti-vaxers or survivalists.

Hanyu · 01/10/2018 00:51

I actually really love that Cod.

Hanyu · 01/10/2018 00:51

Or Cold even. Sorry about that 🤦‍♀️

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 01/10/2018 00:54

It's a plausible explanation that allows us to acknowledge that the moon landings did happen, but also acknowledges some of the anomalous evidence that people cite to prove it was faked

Or they landed on the moon and the world watched footage of it on their TV screens. There is no need to reconcile the two positions because there is no credible evidence of the landings being faked, it has been debunked time and time again.

The mission was being closely monitored by the Russian space agency. If there were credible discrepancies they'd have screamed blue murder. The evidence of the supposedly faked pictures and film are easily explained by the conditions on the moon. This American programme tackles some of the most popular hoaxes from a popular science perspective

www.dailymotion.com/video/x2m7k1z

The size and complexity of arranging such an elaborate deception, would have according to an astroeronautics professor, taken 400,000 people to be complicit, never let it slip to a partner or friend when drunk or whatever You're basically reliant on a similar population to the city of Edinburgh keeping silent for 50 years.

OP posts:

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 01/10/2018 01:01

Or they landed on the moon and the world watched footage of it on their TV screens.

Well yeah that is also plausible!

The size and complexity of arranging such an elaborate deception, would have according to an astroeronautics professor, taken 400,000 people to be complicit, - surely that's referring to people being complicit in a hoax pretending that the moon landings happened when they didn't.

Whereas my alternative theory is that they did happen - so all the people involved in them happening didn't need to be complicit in anything. The only people needing to be complicit would be the film crew and astronauts who would know that the footage wasn't real.

Do you see the difference? I'm not saying the moon landings didn't happen.

I'm also playing Devil's advocate somewhat, since I don't really have an opinion either way. I certainly don't believe that the whole thing was a hoax though.

spidey66 · 01/10/2018 01:16

I read recently Peaches Geldof was murdered rather than accidentally/deliberately overdosed, following her (very unwise imo given she in turn identified the victims) tweet identified Ian Watkins co-defendants at the time of his trial.

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 01/10/2018 01:19

The only people needing to be complicit would be the film crew and astronauts who would know that the footage wasn't real

And the set designers and the NASA hierarchy, broadcast staff and film editors and numerous admin staff and a whole raft of technical experts needed to make it look realistic and crucially look like the presumably non faked footage from subsequent NASA missions. And they managed to set all that up in what--three days and did it so well, that they managed to fool experts at the Russian space agency who had a vested interest in the US mission not being a success?

Sorry, not buying it!

OP posts:

user1497863568 · 01/10/2018 01:53

There's been no credible evidence of an elite level paedophile ring operating amongst the establishment

Well, that's a load of bollocks. I was abused at 8 years old by a man and my parents tried to get charges laid. They always let me think he went to jail but when I was older Dad broke down and said that the man's father was a notorious 'protected' pedophile - protected by the police and establishment.

ChicagoLil · 01/10/2018 06:59

Who was the cameraman who was the first man on the moon who was there to set up and film Neil Armstrong walking down the steps?

Lweji · 01/10/2018 07:08

It's a fixed camera.

Lweji · 01/10/2018 07:11

The only people needing to be complicit would be the film crew and astronauts who would know that the footage wasn't real

People expected it at a certain time and watched it on TV at that time.
How would anyone have the time to verify that the camera wasn't working and set up an elaborate scenario?

Do you have an idea of how hard it is to fake moonwalking in gravity?

RayneDash · 01/10/2018 07:14

You say they lack critical thinking, but the definition of irrationality is making a decision without knowing the full facts. The media only show us what they're told.

I think it would be stupid to write off all opinions that don't fit the norm. After all, the definition of critical thinking is doing research to make a decision. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Would be boring if we all thought the same thing.

Lweji · 01/10/2018 07:21

You say they lack critical thinking, but the definition of irrationality

To start with, conspiracy theorists tend to believe their theory regardless of evidence.

Then they often ignore hard evidence. Extreme case: flat earthers.

There's no critical thinking involved at all.

bellinisurge · 01/10/2018 07:22

I think that the stars are fairies' eyes and the moon is a cuddly munchkin who rolls around the sky - you mean that kind of variety.
Spoiler alert - I don't think these things and if I did , you would be fine not to trust my opinion.

catherinedevalois · 01/10/2018 07:43

I suppose the ultimate conspiracies are organised religions. All the explanations up thread of what a CT is fits religions perfectly.

tillytop · 01/10/2018 08:02

Anyone have any views of the allegations of family courts being a conspiracy to steal children?

Pissedoffdotcom · 01/10/2018 08:24

Yes. All social workers are evil child snatchers working towards a government set target of how many children should become wards of the court per year. I thought this was common knowledge??!

(Tongue in cheek of course)

Gersemi · 01/10/2018 08:27

As Princess Diana being murdered has been mentioned what has always troubled me was the letter she wrote predicting the manner of her death and saying to look into it should she die

What is more likely to be a conspiracy is the claim that the letter exists, as it's never been produced. Even if it did, it's completely meaningless: she was a notoriously flaky woman, and why would anyone who wanted to kill her let her know how they were going to do it? I've never known any Diana conspiracy theorist produce a convincing explanation for the fact that the accident would have been perfectly survivable by the simple expedient of wearing a seatbelt.

Gersemi · 01/10/2018 08:29

Another thing that is never explained - if MM's parents were trying for a cover-up, why on earth would they have spent so much time and effort in keeping the whole thing in the public eye?

Geraldine170 · 01/10/2018 08:31

What is more likely to be a conspiracy is the claim that the letter exists, as it's never been produced.

Yes it has, it was produced at the inquest and has been publicly published. You only have to Google to see it.

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