To think there should be an approval process to allow parents to HE?

[abacucat]

Children's education matters, it is incredibly important and affects the rest of their life. I think it is fine for parents to Home Educate, but I think there should be an approval process before parents can HE. This will check the parents are actually capable of doing this.

""Also who would be in charge of this? Where would the money come from?""

From the money saved from spending it on the child in a school setting. If the child is disabled, extra money could be factored in, such as what would have been spent on transport, TAs etc.

""If you have substance abuse or mental health issues severe enough to impair your ability to take care of a child, that would already be a social services issue, ""

Do you not read the news about children/babies dying in their Family's Care? Unfortunately sometimes Judges get it wrong and award residency to unfit Parents. But, there is some protection from being seen everyday by Professionals (Teachers). The death and assault rate for children under SS goes up during the school holidays.

TittyGolightly, you showed your child how to cook, as a Cookery/Woodwork/PE Teacher teaches.

Children Center's were opened to prevent environmental deprivation, so we know it exists, yet we don't check on Children who aren't sent to school.

I say that as someone whose DD was failed by her Primary School, so I kept her off until I had obtained a Private Assessment (ADHD/Dyslexia) and I achieved more at home in those months, than school had done for two years.

But I looked into different strategies for learning (this was the early 90's), multi sensory learning etc.

Those things could be checked on. Not Parental qualifications, but how you've set yourself up and the preparation/planning that you have done to HE.

If the child hasn't been seen by Nursery/School Nurses, then the first visit could be combined with an assessment for Health.

There are lots of groups of people that I think should get a visit to make sure that everything is OK. These include HE and Parents with 'no recourse to public funds/no leave to remain'.

I would like this to be guided by the rights of the child and support for the Parents, which under 'Every Child Matters' was a duty.

I know people with first class honours degrees who say “should of” and don’t know the difference between their, there and they’re

And that's anywhere near functionally illiterate? Christ.

@Thesearmsofmine

I am in some FB groups but the problem is DD has ASD and finds social stuff and meeting new people so difficult. I managed to get her to go to one group once but she hated it and won’t even contemplate going to anymore. But then she moans that she’s lonely...she depends on me not only for her education but all of her social interaction which is quite draining.

I find phrases like people's right to raise their children as they see fit more alarming than a light touch state involvement like registration and basic checks. Children's right to an education trumps their parents' rights here and I agree it's worrying.

One my neighbours home educates her ds and she is fantastic - but even though she is not following a set curriculum, I see how much thought and work she does, often quietly and in the background, to facilitate his learning, socialising etc. I'm fairly bright and a decent mother (I hope), but don't honestly think I could do it well, and am sure lots of others would be the same.
There have also been a number of cases recently where 'home educating' has been a way for schools to get rid of underperforming students, or even more seriously (though rarely) for abusive parents to facilitate that abuse.

""Why does this suddenly matter when a child is 5.""

It doesn't, that's why the Government funds so many hours for Parents who aren't working.

If you HE, did or would you use a Nursery?

If I could take you and place you with anyone that I choose you should live with. You would have to do/eat/watch/listen to, live how they dictated, every day, with no break. Or if not you, your child. Would you be terrified by that? Because I know that I would.

Perhaps we need research doing on this. That will show if it is necessary or not.

MN thinks HE is primarily done in nice MC families where mum is well educated and probably has a bit too much time on her times after giving up a high powered job and/or families who think schools are a bit too high pressured or rough for their precious children.

In reality, HE is very often used by families to remove their children from the eye of the authorities. It's amazing how many children on the verge of a social care referral are removed from school.

HE is a major safeguarding red flag IMO. I'm not saying all HE parents are a risk, of course not, but there does need to be some sort of monitoring for the safety of these children, let alone their education.

I don’t think there should be an approval process but I wouldn’t be averse to very light tough monitoring (I’m thinking in the form of say a standardised test at age 8, 11 and 16 in maths and English) and enforced intervention if eg an 8 year old is still illiterate or do arithmetic (not by forcing them into a school which is not going to help at that point, but engaging them with e.g. dyslexia professionals).

But I think the model of a centralised school is a bit outdated. I like the idea of lots of specialist centres (language center, literature center, science center etc) serving all age groups that parents and communities can draw on to create bespoke educations.

I agree there should be some system in place to ensure children who are being home educated are actually getting an education, and at least being educated in basic skills, by competent people.

I used to work in a school and two girls were taken out for a year to be "home educated." The staff were all aghast as these girls were already behind in their work and nobody believed their mum was cabable of home educating, as she had helped out in school a few times and had been heard making some pretty basic errors. Even her own mother didn't approve of taking them out of school.

A year later the girls came back into school, clearly having learnt nothing during their time out as they were even further behind than they had been before. Basically, they had just had a year off school. It did them no favours at all.

This will check the parents are actually capable of doing this.

Really? The same approval process that has schools failing kids up an down the country?

‘Do you not read the news about children/babies dying in their Family's Care? Unfortunately sometimes Judges get it wrong and award residency to unfit Parents. But, there is some protection from being seen everyday by Professionals (Teachers). The death and assault rate for children under SS goes up during the school holidays.‘

The OP wants approval to be sought before the parents start home educating. If your argument is that home education increases the risk of potential death of children, child abuse or neglect being spotted, that increased risk will not show up at the point of approval. At that point, the child has had as much contact with teachers and HCPs as any other child of the same age.

I have 2 experiences of HE - as a home educating parent, and in a school where Traveller girls over the age of 10-11 were routinely removed from school to be 'home educated' by slightly older Traveller women, who were generally totally illiterate (not 'using should of' but genuinely unable to write their own name or read e.g. a Reception child's reading book).

In both roles, I would have no issue with registration - a register of all home educating families and their children - and also a system of regular 'light touch' contact from the LA.

i would not propose 'approval', as when I took DS out of school to HE in an emergency, he was already so damaged by his immediate school environment that the length of any approval process could have made that damage even harder to reverse

But they don't learn quadratic equations, or physics from just asking questions

😂😂😂 you sound well informed and experienced in how children learn outside of school.

Maybe we should ask head teachers whether they think there's room in the budget to process the home ed licenses?

This idea is really a wet dream for the Tories AND the hard left. The former can charge a license fee to cover the costs, making sure it's high enough to exclude the poor. The latter can exclude families on ideological grounds, reducing family contact time so undesirable beliefs cannot be transmitted from parents to offspring.

I think there should be some sort of monitoring, for most it would only need to be low level but just to keep an eye on things.

If I can’t get ds into the right setting for secondary I will home educate him rather than send him to the wrong place

I think when HE say things like “my daughter asked me how to cook an omlette, she’s learning all the time” we get an insight into how incredibly low expectations and standards are for many of these children. Last time there was a debate on here someone was banging on about their 7YO learning by reading the shopping list. 7!!!

I think there should be some low level monitoring, a bit like what the health visitor does in the early years. A child at school who is coming in frequently late, unexplained absences, dirty, hungry etc will be noticed by the school. A child like that who is HE might not.

I think if you are the parent of a child with SEN who is HE then you shouldn't feed into or defend yourself with this thread.

All of the parents I know who HE are those of children with SEN and are doing so because MS schools are unable to meet their needs and have not accepted them, there is a severe shortage of SEN school places so children don't have a place or are having to be bussed in from other counties and, just like in MS schools, schools are fighting to get their students support with ever decreasing budgets and picking up the slack.

I was actively encouraged to HE my DD by her previous school and the LEA in the past because it removes her from school attendance rolls and the LA's duty to provide her with a suitable education.

So no, they are not going to bring in rules that will highlight already massive failings in education.

I tend to agree with you and I think it needs more closely vetted. It’s actually a discussion point in certain areas of Scotland just now as kids that are being HE officially are being abused and missed. Obviously this only a small minority of parents that do this. I have met some parents who HE and the standard of education they provide is excellent . I have also met some that quite honestly can’t read or write well themselves so most likely lack the skills to HE.

What’s wrong with learning through a shopping list or cooking an omelette? My kids did both at school.

I think when HE say things like “my daughter asked me how to cook an omlette, she’s learning all the time” we get an insight into how incredibly low expectations and standards are for many of these children.

I’m not a HE.

It was an example of how children learn. And that school isn’t the only place learning happens.

(DD was 4 when she mastered omelettes, BTW.)

So no, they are not going to bring in rules that will highlight already massive failings in education.

THIS!

This subject can be mulled over for ever but the above is true and that’s why there are regular flurries of discussion about monitoring HE but nothing ever comes of it because the powers that be know that they are unable to provide a suitable educational setting for a significant percentage of children and this would be highlighted by stricter rules surrounding HE.

There is nothing wrong with it. It’s not a good example of how you can teach your child through HE though. It’s an every day occurance for most children, and extremely basic.

The 2 families I currently know are HE are a total joke and completely failing the child. 1 was unable to get a place for their youngest at their preferred school and basically can't be arsed to get him to a different school. They once couldn't fill.in a form because they 'don't have a pen' and can barely read/write at all. The other family, the boy was excluded and she can't be arsed to continue persevering with him in a school setting.

I would get my life savings that neither child is getting any form of decent education whatsoever.

Don't know what could or would ever be done about it though.

(Obviously I know the situation is completely different for genuine home educators but this is the other side of the coin and how the system can totally fail these children)

How would social services know they were neglecting them? That's the whole bloody point.
Well, I guess that's up to the surrounding community to keep an eye on things

Have you seen the MN threads when someone has a concern?

They seem to be like vipers nests with people being very quick to say don't judge... I suppose you're perfect parents... how can you report when you have no idea... maybe the child has SEND but sure try to ruin a family... are you always so snobby OP? You seem quick to judge... you'd report to social services because the kids don't seem clean? You better not come round my house. One of mine has ketchup down them... the world would be so much better if people didn't think it was there place to tell others how to parent

I think HE should register and should be subject to spot checks. I also (perhaps controversially) think there should be a minimum standard of literacy and numeracy that has to be demonstrated when HEing by the end (ish) of a Key Stage. E.g. between 5 and 7 a NT child should be demonstrating... between 10 and 12...

Some home ed parents do a wonderful job and I'm envious of the education they give their child. Others I'm aware of follow ACE Christian education so it's mainly primary school by bible stories and others I know decided that their child (who they would post online was a "little shit" on a regular basis) couldn't be misbehaving at school, teachers obviously hated him so they have pulled all children out of school to unschool.

*their place