Aibu to be amazed by this attitude to working mums?

[princessmum1]

Just so amazed by this.

Post on a local mums group I’m on about 30 hours funding etc. Normal question.

Someone comments ‘I personally don’t understand why parents don’t wait until their child is at school they’re missing out on so much! 😞 x’

Then goes on to say ‘That’s what benefits are for. I personally can’t wait to get back to work but spending quality time with my children is a lot more important to me x’

Ummm.

I would love to stay at home until my kids start school.

But I can’t. I need to earn money. To pay for things.

Stalked her on facebook. Has a nice 3 bedroom house, most likely housing association with rent paid by benefits. Am I being unreasonable to be slightly angry that I work extremely hard in a full time job, to pay my mortgage, pay £1000 a month childcare, have little money left at the end of the month and I only have a small two bedroom flat. (South east)

It almost makes me want to just quit. But I won’t. Because I think you have to work for things in life. And benefits are there for people having a hard time in unforeseen circumstances. NOT because you want to be at home with your children until they’re at school. I know technically speaking I’m doing very well to be a home owner where I live, single parent and still work.

Anyway...

Op is not judging sahms, she's judging someone boasting about benefits - 'that's what benefits are for' !

I think its great she has been honest about her opinions purely because i love it people who are this honest warn me that they aren't worth me getting to know. Judgemental people are exhausting.

Every child's home life is different, some good and some bad. I somehow doubt a child with neglectful or abusive parents would thrive at home. Additional to that is a families needs: to pay rent, to maintain or progress career, to homeschool their child, the parents mh and the child's mental health, the number of dc, their childs temprement. Some children thrive at home, some at nursery and some with childminders. It's not on size fits all.

In some of my family her opinion is correct for 2 and wrong for 2. My brother and i did great with my mum as a sahp. My siblings were more gregarious and did better at nursery. My friends children did better at nursery as they have SEN and the nursery could provide it where she couldn't. Im sure there are other parents having the opposite experience too.

I've never seen this WOHM/SAHM battle anywhere but online. In my real life, most of the mums I know with younger children work part time. Some are full time, some are SAHMs. We're all capable of respecting each others' decisions and situations, having a friendly chat at playgroup and working out playdates with each other. If anyone judges anyone else, they're not stupid or rude enough to let it show.

I have to work, I can't claim benefits as my situation doesn't allow past child benefit (basic). When the 30 free hours came in I was relieved as it eased our outgoings considerably. When voiced this, SIL piped up with comments about how she didn't need them and wasn't 15 hours away from DC enough. She says she'd miss her DC too much and that she didn't have them for someone else to raise them.

OP, there will always be stupid and entitled people who think its ok to make comments and judge because they think their decisions make them better parents. They're selfish and thoughtless, those comments above have resonated with me and really made me question my decisions. All I actually wanted to do was look after my own DC and to think I'm being judged just makes me feel worse.

In the last year I've had to really have a word with myself. We can't give ourselves a hard time for the situations we're managing. Wanting to work is not shameful, managing to be a parent and go to work is being successful because it's bloody hard.

Let her comments wash over you. I always think that if someone needs to boast about their situation it's a sign that all is not well. I doubt she's happy, not because of her situation but maybe she feels that she has to justify being on benefits.

FWIW I don't believe all of this crap about cognitive development being affected by early years care. Day care, childminder, parent - whatever - if someone is taking the time to speak to the child and value them then they'll develop as they should. Obviously child care settings have an obligation to plan for this and parents can do what they like. So unless the child is with a lazy adult then they'll get the input they need, whatever their needs.

We would be homeless if I didn't work. Simple as that . I wasn't in a position to give up a good job to stay at home after maternity leave and take the chance - I would never have you d as good a job woth as flexible hours.

I think people miss the point when they assume it's a choice.

I've been a working mum before. Now I'm a SAHM to four children, one a baby and 2 with development problems. There's not enough hours in the day for me to work and I need to be at home for them.

I think you are both being a bit judgemental about each others choices Tbh.
As a benefits advisor, I have agree with your Facebook acquaintance that supporting women to look after their kids in the early years is what benefits are for.
Under the old IS/JSA system the main carer of a child isn't required to look for work before the child is 5.
Under Universal Credit you can be required to look for work once the child is 3. But only for 16 hours a week. And this coincides with the introduction of free early years education.
There's never been a requirement for women to obtain paid childcare and enter work. Nor should there be in my opinion, as its a very personal decision and women generally act in the best interests of their children.
I'd advise anyone to do a "better off calculation" before entering work. Find out what your actual disposable income will be with in work benefits and minus childcare costs and the cost of travel to work. Then make the decision about what's best for your family.
Also: being in work doesn't necessarily make you less reliant on benefits.
My total cost to the tax payer is highest when I'm in full time work because childcare is my biggest expense and therefore the childcare element of working tax credits gets pretty hefty.

There's never been a requirement for women to obtain paid childcare and enter work. Nor should there be in my opinion, as its a very personal decision and women generally act in the best interests of their children.

Out of interet, does this apply only to women, or to men too if they are sahd?

Don’t worry about it. She doesn’t have much in life. I always think people who say things like that sound a bit thick

I agree we should all do just do the best we can for our families.
Love and care for our children.
And stop judging each other for making the best out of their situation no matter what it is.
DH works full time. I was in a NMW job and I now stay at home with our son and we do get a top up from universal credit.
I worked for 8 years before DS and I will go back to work once he's in school. We haven't got help with childcare from family and it just didn't seem cost effective to pay for childcare when I was on NMW.
If I had a career I had worked for and loved, I'm sure I would have made a different choice so I don't judge because everyone circumstances are different.

May have fell asleep and missed all of these..

I apologise. I was judgey myself but was definitely not a SAHM bashing. I would love to be a SAHM myself if my situation allowed!

Also totally get that sometimes it’s not viable to work. And in those situations I agree that’s what benefits are for! Nothing st all against claiming when required, I receive some tax credits which help massively with childcare.

It was more the attitude of benefits being a lifestyle choice I don’t agree with. As if you rocked up at careers day and there were stands for doctors, nurses, receptionists and benefits...

My views are probably heavily influenced by American relatives who don’t have any of the government support that we get in this country who have to work so hard to be able to provide for themselves if they wish to take time off to raise their children full time. We are extremely lucky.

@bumpitybumper Agree with you- see my later clarification- I was talking about 3/4 year olds

You can say it’s codswallop if you like but read the research. Children in quality 1-1 care before the age of 3 do better academically, have better social/emotional skills and speech and language than their peers.

Porkflute, correlation does not equal causation.

I'm sure you're aware that children born to parents in receipt of benefits are generally disadvantaged with respect to language development and overall academic achievement, which is why they're so heavily targeted for pre-school enrichment programmes.

But really, there's no much sense in getting worked up over this sort of thing because it's largely been knocked on its head - it's pretty difficult to pull it off for more than a few years in the aftermath of the post-Labour reforms.

@unlimiteddilutingjuice I thought it was 4 years old that you had to change from Income Support to signing on? Has it recently changed as that’s what I was told when I was on IS 2 years ago, hope they haven’t mislead me I’d love to stay at home with my DD until she’s 5 but then she’d be in pre-school full time from 3 and so would be a waste stunting my career. Plus I have to fund her extortionate school fees without her DF around, nursery has been a god send! You do what’s best for your children OP. Don’t let anyone try tell you otherwise

@inertpotato you can pull it off by having 4/5/6/7 kids and many to choose to make this decision purely so they can avoid work. This is why child benefit has been capped at two children.

Well, that was sort of my point - it's not possible to do this anymore, so what's the point in fretting over it.

I think for people who have worked full time and been on minimum wage, therefore still in receipt of some benefits, you are no worse off for relying solely on benefits.
Working full time on 12k a year I was in receipt of child tax credit with the childcare element, child benefit, council tax support, working tax credit and housing benefit, plus my wage. So I was working full time but still getting all these.
I left work and claimed income support, my housing benefit went up and your council tax bill dropped massively.
However if I had had a career and on a good wage, I would have lost too much and not been able to live on such a low amount. It's because I was used to low income that I managed.
I have a partner now who works 40 hours, 21k, but we are still in receipt of benefits.

It's interesting that this narrative is almost never applied to men. Me and my DH both work full time ....his working patterns have never been commented upon, unlike mine.

I SAH because I felt I should. DH is a high earner and we could easily afford it.
It was fucking hideous and even as a well educated MC parent whose situation would seem to be giving the best start to my boys, it really wasn’t because I hated it so much and I was so depressed that CBeebies became their main care giver. I’d given up my professional career and who I was.

So the stats might show that children of well educated mc parents do v well with one at home, but in my case my boys would have done far better had they been at nursery.

You need to be careful, OP. People judge all the time and most of that time, they don’t get it right. You can have no idea of this woman’s life, only a snapshot on social media that you’ve made lots of assumptions about.

I am a single parent. I live in a slightly bigger than average for the area house. It is all paid for. I once had some awful woman drop off her child for a play date and literally sniff at me ‘I suppose we’re paying for you to live in that’. She spent many years avoiding me in the playground after that!

She could be somebody that's worked all her life and has paid into the system for all you know.

A. If she’s got young kids, it’s unlikelt she’s paid in for that long.
B. Paying taxes is your moral and legal duty. It isn’t your personal savings bank you can plunder when you feel you’re “entitled”.

One thing I disagree with is people saying that going out to work while they’re pre school age is being a good role model. Or rather therefore saying if you are at home on benefits, you’re not.

I was at home until my children started school. I then did an Access course. Followed by getting a place on a training programme for a particular profession (which included studying for a degree) and then went into professional employment. My DCs saw how hard I worked and studied and how it paid off. Both have told me it’s inspired them in their own lives.

Ohreally how breathtakingly rude 😵!

Thank you for the apology, Purple. That is very civil of you, and I appreciate it.

Thanks, too, for clarifying what you meant. I was struggling to see how my DC would have benefited from being in group childcare when they were small and when I was fortunate enough to have the choice whether to work or not (I chose not to). However, you are quite right that all the evidence suggests that a degree of socialisation with peers is beneficial for pre-schoolers.

@BlaaBlaaBlaa THIS.