To wonder if a second vote is possible?

[LEMtheoriginal]

Could there be a 2nd referendum or is it too late?

Agree with babyspider... if we DID have another EU referendum, and the remain side wins by the same percentage that the leave side won, will we get a best of 3? If the NEXT result is leave, will the remainers ask for a best of 5? It's fucking ridiculous. Leave won, there was propaganda on both sides, (though more scare tactics on the remain side,) and we are leaving.

What disturbs me is the fact that David Cameron AND Jeremy Corbyn were always on the side of leaving the EU, in fact Corbyn was VERY anti-EU, until recently. Yet they both switched sides... Very odd.

Corbyn has only changed stance because he thinks it will get him into No 10. I wouldn't trust that man an INCH, and will never vote for Labour with him as leader. The Labour party is fucked. Loads of people I know, won't vote Labour now (with Corbyn as leader.) They will NEVER get back into power with him as leader. And we are leaving the EU.

I also agree with babyspider that if the REMAIN side had won, would they tolerate another referendum from the LEAVE side (if they wanted to keep on til they get the answer they want?) Not likely. I am sick and tired of people who benefit from being in the EU, and people who have some kind of Stockholm Syndrome going on, trying to derail Brexit.

And as I said, I am very bothered by how certain people changed their stance on being in the EU. And I think the reasons are sly and sinister. And people like Gina Miller need to do one. Oh how I loathe and detest that over privileged woman. How DARE she try and derail Brexit?

The sooner next March comes, and the sooner we are out of the EU, the better! I am sick to the back teeth of remainers now, their accusations of people supporting Brexit all being thick and bigoted, and their desperation to derail Brexit, and to destroy democracy!

I also think that the EU has outlived its usefulness, and it's a rich boys club that does not benefit the poor and vulnerable, and the poorly paid who have been shit on from a great height for at least 2 decades, (whilst the rich have lined their pockets.) Upshot is, it does NOTHING for ordinary people on low pay, (of which there are many,) and for many people there is not one single reason to stay in it. And that is why the Brexit vote won.

Anyone blaming Brexit for loss of production and orders etc, (in Businesses,) and for house prices going down, and the pound dropping in the stock market, and for job losses etc, need to give their head a wobble. All this shit was happening WAY before Brexit. The credit crunch started in 2008 FFS! Many people think 'who gives a shit what happens after Brexit?' They have been so poor and downtrodden for SO many years that they have no further to drop; so they are just saying...'BRING IT ON!'

The only problems that we are experiencing, are being caused by the remain side desperately trying to derail Brexit, and trying to scare people with nonsensical tales of how the country will fall off the planet when we leave the EU. I have ever known anything like it. Makes me wonder why they are so desperate to stay. It's ridiculous.

We have only been in it for 45 years, and we don't NEED the EU. They need us more, and are royally pissed off that they are losing our money. And that is the only reason they want us to stay; don't kid yourselves! We were fine before we joined the EU, and we will be fine when we leave, next March. Get a grip people!

And please do bore off with the 'you sound nuts/unhinged/thick comments, and the accusations of being bigoted, racist, and a little Englander, because I've heard it all before. And it's boring now. Plus, I am not responding to anything, as I have said all I want to in this post. Good day to you all.

Wow, that was some rant 😮

The only problems that we are experiencing, are being caused by the remain side desperately trying to derail Brexit

And this sentence is positively hilarious, although the concluding paragraph is perhaps the best thing I've ever read in a Brexit thread

If the UK changed it's mind wether by another referendum or otherwise would the EU allow a revoking of article 52? I don't think Tusk etc now want the UK to remain in the EU they just want the best deal for them.

true true, after all the tory party is full of those working class lads without a penny to their name isnt it? hmm

Yes and they can be replaced in 5 years time with [shudder] JC if the people of the U.K. so wish. Not true of the EU.

I don't see the issue with a second vote. It will be a different set of question this time, framed with new information.

The first vote was a marginal win for leave and so the process of leaving the EU began. It's been an utter shambles, has highlighted difficult issues and indeed, no agreement with the EU regarding terms or costs has been reached.

Going back to the electorate with new information and seeking a views on whether we really want to do this if it's a no deal or a deal on unfavourable terms is not a re-run of the previous vote.

Im afraid im a bit jaded indistinct seeing the repercussions and whats been lost already. It may not be too late to claw some back if we try but there seems little appetite for it, sadly, from what I've seen.

I voted remain because i saw no clear strategy for brexit and was well aware of the repercussions and risks. So im not surprised to see them now.

There should never have been a referendum in the first place.

^this.

Most common folk had no fucking idea what they were even voting for. I literally know people that voted leave because they thought it would help keep terrorists out . It was the worst political decision in this country since the Iraq war.

They were voting on false promises and ideals for the most part. Understandable ones in some cases because who would not want millions of pounds back in the nhs?

However false promises they were. No strategy was there. Leave has to take responsibility for not having one at all and not doing the simple math and leading peolle down the garden path. Likewise remain campaign was wishy washy and lackluster, not pointing out the hard truths.

They were all too busy enjoying the debate and show boating that actual evidence and facts weren't explored.

And anyone who thinks there is no affect, you will soon see the effect. You may not now as it doesn't directly affect you yet but you will. There is a hell of a lot going on that's desperately reactive and trying to account for every eventuality when they are unknown.

Just an aside- those who voted Remain actually did know what they were voting for. It was to continue doing what we were doing.

Those who wielded their stubby little pencil in that voting booth and got it wrong voted Leave, every one of them it appears had a different idea of what their own, personal 'Leave' would look like.

Some thought there'd be £350m instantly available for the NHS; some thought Tory austerity would end forthwith- hell, they might even reopen the mine and shipyard! Some thought they'd see an end to dark skin on the high street; some thought their wages would shoot up overnight; some used their vote as a protest against the Tories, nothing whatever to do with the EU.

Which is why the most googled term on Google the following day was 'What is the EU?'...

So yes, I feel there is some truth in the assertion that quite a lot of Leave voters didn't give much thought to what they were actually doing- but I guess if your only source of information is your FB algorithm-driven news feed or a red top paper owned by someone who has a strong vested interest in a less regulated taxation and financial system; and the dismantling of workers rights... you probably didn't know any better.

Not too many generalizations there mijah - would you please be kind enough to describe your 'remain' voter in such 'generalized' terms? I'm interested to read your description.

@user1490607838

It is not true to say that the EU has not brought anything to those on low pay or the underprivileged. The EU deliberately funds construction and other projects in poorer regions to help stimulate the economies of those areas (e.g. Sage Gateshead etc ...) - construction providing many low - mid skill roles. Numerous manufacturers providing lower and semi-skilled jobs are based out of the UK because of access to the EU market. These jobs are more readily accessible to those from underprivileged backgrounds as they don't necessarily require the higher levels of education that are difficult to reach if you don't have the stable upbringing that higher incomes can provide (regardless of innate ability).

More importantly why will leaving the EU address the issues of the poorly paid? The opposite will be true - imagine Sunderland without Nissan - not likely to be a more prosperous happier place. It may reduce some competition for some jobs but from the UK governments own report it seems most EU migrants were net positive contributors to the economy in mid to high skilled jobs thereby increasing competition for the middle classes not the low paid.

Also industry warnings can not simply be dismissed. I agree that its difficult to isolate the Brexit impact from the myriad other issues but there are consistent warnings from individual companies, trade organisations and trade unions of the risks/impacts of the Canada and no deal options.

If leaving the EU is to increase prosperity for the low paid and poor then please articulate a vision (at the highest level) that not only addresses the negative impacts of lost EU membership but also shows how we can flourish in the world economy and not just decline or survive. This has not been articulated by anyone within UK government or beyond and all our DCs futures are dependent on it - high stakes indeed, not something to be taken lightly.

Hatels - certainly. Remainers generally voted Remain because they understood the benefits of our close ties to our neighbours. Generally, Remainers saw the EU as being, in balance, a mutually beneficial thing in terms of ease of trade, freedom of movement and political stability.

HTH.

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like generally explaining.

No that doesn't HTH - I was looking for some more substance to you your description similar to your Leaver description :

Some thought there'd be £350m instantly available for the NHS; some thought Tory austerity would end forthwith- hell, they might even reopen the mine and shipyard! Some thought they'd see an end to dark skin on the high street; some thought their wages would shoot up overnight; some used their vote as a protest against the Tories, nothing whatever to do with the EU.

As you seem to have a thorough understanding of the thoughts and sources of info of Leave voters I thought you could provide a similar for Remain voters - or are they too varied in characteristics that it would be hard to explain. Unlike your 'stereotypical' Leave voter?

And, no, no other general explanations needed thank you.

if your only source of information is your FB algorithm-driven news feed or a red top paper owned by someone who has a strong vested interest in a less regulated taxation and financial system; and the dismantling of workers rights... you probably didn't know any better.

Coz all Leave voters only do FB and Red-Tops. Really?

Lots of mumsnet middle class remainers on this thread too...

Understandable, you have the most to lose! :)

How do you know what class posters are

Working class and proud here! And i disagree, i think the only ones who may be fine are high high earners.

I don’t - I’m guessing from the bleating...

10degreestostarboard I'm a middle class mumsnetter - could you tell me what it is I am going to lose under Brexit, and how that differs from what non-middleclass non-mumsnetters are going to lose please?

I just don't understand how anyone thinks that the middle class have 'the most to lose'.

With big companies moving overseas meaning job losses jobs and prices going up due to increasing transport and import costs it is once again those with the least (low paid, job seekers and long term sick/disabled) that are going to lose out more than anyone else?

It really is a sick joke - like turkeys voting for Xmas while the mega rich make more money.

Gnome

You personally? No idea, I don’t know you

As a group of people you might have potential to lose jobs either directly or indirectly associated with eu membership

Meanwhile, in dole land or minimum wage world, less is likely to change on the whole. After all, we can’t really afford what the govt spends as it is so those people will be kept going by increased govt borrowing if the brown stuff hits the fan

I wouldn't have agreed there should be another but the first one was so heavily full of propaganda and outright lies that it really misled people.

We need another vote with a formal, full and truthful explanation of the details as we know it.

Truth?

You will find that difficult to identify I think at this stage

But you are right about the remain campaign propaganda

10degreestostarboard it’s nice to see someone so full of hatred towards people who they perceive to be doing better than them and taking glee in the fact you think that middle class people will lose most whilst nothing will change for the working class as it’s shit for them already.
Did you ever stop to think that a large chunk of the middle class are actually from working class backgrounds and have just worked incredibly hard to do better for their families? After all, how many middle class people can say 50 or 100 years ago their family would have been considered middle class?
And if you look at it from a purely selfish point of view (which you clearly seem to be) have you considered the fact that we have a Tory government who already couldn’t give a sh*t about the working classes? They already look for any opportunity to reduce benefits and any other state aid. A big chunk of the middle class being put out of work and on the dole or in minimum wage jobs would just give the Tories more ammunition to further lower and restrict benefits as with more people claiming them it would become too costly.
I voted remain, but whether we leave or not the thing I want most is for all of this vicious me, me, me attitude that seems to have arisen to go away. It’s toxic and makes the UK a really horrible place to live at the moment.