To wonder if a second vote is possible?

[LEMtheoriginal]

Could there be a 2nd referendum or is it too late?

@bellinisurge

I don’t agree that it’s too late. A change of PM, an election or decision to hold referendum and I think EU27 would grant an extension to ensure it could be run without forcing UK to exit.

The argument that the path is already set is wrong. It is common to claim A50 can’t be revoked possibly/probably with the intention of suppressing Brexit dissent as futile. This is not true - we are still in the EU and UK government still has no realistic plan. UK politics is unstable due to Brexit (2 GEs + 1 ref in 2 years and TM under near continuous threat of internal challenge). There is still a chance to persuade your fellow citizens of the best course of action. These threads and respectful reasoned discussions in RL between leavers and remainers (no matter how difficult) will have a real impact on what happens. If you care about Brexit outcome and the impact on UK DCs, engage meaningfully with those who voted differently to you.

Could you be any more patronising? So presumably you voted to remain as you have a superior intellect but those who voted to leave are all poor ignorant fools with no powers of comprehension? DFOD

Bit unnecessary. It's now patently obvious that millions of people voted for something that was built on lies and fabrication.

Since many politicians hadn't thought through - or were ignorant of - the complex negative consequences of a Leave vote, it's entirely reasonable to assume that many voters were in the same boat.

I opted out of this discussion because I felt I was getting nowhere as I wasn’t getting any sensible answers. There seems to be a strong feeling that remainers ‘look down’ on leavers for being ‘thick’
Remainers were lied to and now that the reality is becoming clear it seems that the ones who steadfastly stick to their original viewpoint are showing their true colours

I can’t see a second referendum happening. The UK is fucked and that’s that.

There was vote and a result. You didn't get the result you wanted - its called democracy.

Why should there be, though. We had the vote in 2016 and opted to leave. OK Brexit only won by a very small majority but It was a win no less.
Had it gone the other way would we have had a second vote............Didn't think so.

The point is we need to vote on the deal. The details. What it actually means. We didn't know that in 2016.

What is the problem with more democracy? There's a word for stopping more democracy.

Also what happens if we do vote again and leave gets the majority again. Are we just going to keep voting until people get what they want.

No.

Were you asked if you wanted no deal?

Were you asked if you wanted Canada++?

Were you asked if you wanted Chequers?

It's all so skimpy on the detail, isn't it? Does that not bother you at all? That after a campaign where Leave cheated and lied, they won by a tiny margin and now politicians are running with that towards a terrifying no deal scenario?

No. We need to vote on reality. Not fantasy.

And if Leave win again after a referendum based on facts then so be it.

I sont think anyone knew what they were viting for the first time around. For many it was about immigration and not wanting to bow down to european law.

I voted to remain and that wont change. However if an INFORMED majority vote leave i accept that.

The referendum was flawed because of lack of information (on both sides) and because the majority was too slim.

I dont pretend to know jack shit about politics and economics etc etc isn't that why we pay people to spend time understanding it to act on our behalf?

Thete should never have been a referendum. It was too important.

Now we're fucked

Please god dont let voting be done online ever - fat fingers and auto correct woild have me voting monster raving loony

I voted remain and still stand by that vote so to not leave would please me however I absolutely in no way thinking having a second referendum is a good idea. They shouldn't have put it to a vote in the first place now they just need to get on with it.

I haven't read the full thread but to be clear I mean a second vote to leave or remain. Not any differing vote that goes into the actual deal.

I think its far too late.

Science and medicine certainly have already lost or are losing a lot of valuable staff. Its fucked regardless.

I’ve asked before, and never had an answer, but I don’t understand how we could have a second vote on the terms of the deal. The fact that we were going to do so would impact too much on the negotiations - if it’s right that the EU don’t want us to leave, then they would surely refuse to give anything but the bare minimum, safe in the knowledge that the U.K. public would then reject the deal and vote to stay. If they made any concessions it would risk being accepted by the subsequent referendum.

@sprinkleofsunshine now they just need to get on with it?

With what exactly?

That's the whole point.

I hear this a lot - "I voted Remain but just get on with it."

Boymumma, we didn't vote to join the EU. It was the common market back then and that was what we voted to enter.

catx1606 we voted to remain in the EEC in 1973 we had already joined. It was know as the Common Market but that was not its official name.

Successive elected governments have negotiated and voted for closer union with the EU. That is how U.K. representative democracy works. Referenda are only advisory and should be the exception.

we didn't vote to join the EU. It was the common market back then and that was what we voted to enter.

The times move on, its a shame that those who think like this didnt move with the times, I'm sure theres an episode of Terry and June on Sky somwhere you can watch

@artesia

Its not clear why the EU wouldn’t act in the best interests of its citizens in EU/UK negotiations whether there’s a planned 2nd vote or not. This is borne out by reality; chequers (i.e. cake and eat it) is already rejected by EU and no 2nd vote is under consideration by UK gov. Only Canada or EEA/EFTA options offered by EU both of which protect their interests.

@WhateverHappenedToTheHeatwave and others
It’s not too late. If you can see the damage now you should know there’s plenty more damage still to come. Manufacturers with JIT supply chains are still operating out of UK (100,000s high value jobs), financial sector still preparing for worst but not leaving en masse, UK universities still have solid reputations and many EU staff, agriculture impacts not due until actual exit ...
Resistance is not futile and our DC futures very much on the line. A 2nd ref or change of gov can change path to remain or limit damage via EEA/EFTA+CU.

Also what happens if we do vote again and leave gets the majority again. Are we just going to keep voting until people get what they want.

Such a tired argument. The people's vote is not about repeating the referendum; it is about voting on the deal we get. Why don't people check basic facts?

It’s wrong as it would go against democracy the only vote should be on the terms of the leave deal and there should be no option to remain if we want our democracy taken seriously.

How is it undemocratic to give people another chance to have their say, now that they are better informed about the likely consequences of Brexit?

If it is the will of the people to leave the EU no matter what, with or without a deal, then a second referendum will uphold that decision. There is no risk to democracy.

If "the people" are now in possession of more information and wish to change their original position, why on earth would it be undemocratic to give them another opportunity to vote? Nobody is forcing them to vote differently unless they wish to do so.

we didn't vote to join the EU. It was the common market back then and that was what we voted to enter.

@Justanotherposter00

The times move on, its a shame that those who think like this didnt move with the times, I'm sure theres an episode of Terry and June on Sky somewhere you can watch.

Oh the supreme irony!!! To say that when there are remainers like you desperate to STAY with the EU that we joined 45 years ago LOL! It's a shame you can't move with the times too, and leave this outdated, rich boys club.

we didn't vote to join the EU. It was the common market back then and that was what we voted to enter.

Yah-huh. If you think that is actually true, all that shows is that "we" weren't paying attention to what we voted for then, just as "we" don't seem to have a scooby what we voted for in 2016.

I'm just going to leave this here.