Not to want to buy a house with DM?

[JasnahKholin]

DM and I had an argument today (or rather she ranted and I said very little, which is usually how it goes). She wants us to sell up and chip in to buy a house with her. Her reasoning as follows:

1. We could afford something much better together (true - probably a large house and garden with a decent sized annexe. She is currently in a 4 bed detached and we are in a small flat)
2. She would be around to help with childcare as DH and I are both shift workers (sort of true - but she finds it very difficult to look after both DCs at once, doesn’t often as we don’t ask. Don’t think that would change.)
3. It would be cheaper otherwise as only one set of council tax etc
4. Fundamentally and most importantly - she is lonely. She hates living alone. My dad left her 10 years ago and she has never really got over it. She currently lives half an hour away. We see her at least once if not twice a week but she thinks it is not enough. She says she would never have left one of her parents living alone.

My reasons for not:

1. We did briefly move in with her just before and after we had DS1 while we were house-hunting and it was horrific. She was incredibly controlling and unsupportive and the whole situation hugely contributed to my developing PND. She acknowledges that didn’t go well but says it was my fault as I was in ‘a funny place mentally’, (so nothing to do with her constantly hassling me to stop breastfeeding and waking me up whenever I managed to nap while the baby did as I ‘should be up and about’ ) and says it would be different if we were in a main house/ annexe type situation with own kitchens etc. I don’t think it would be.
2. DH doesn’t want to. Because of above. He has in fact said over his dead body will he ever live with her again. She does not accept he gets an equal say in this.
3. She is incredibly wearing and negative. (Admittedly mostly because she is lonely), but I find spending time with her incredibly draining. She also undermines my parenting.
4. Purely practicallly, I don’t want to settle in this area for ever. I’d like to be free to move around over the next few years and don’t want the added complication of either having to move all together or extricate ourselves financially.
5. I don’t think any house we bought with her, regardless of the arrangements of who was living where, would ever feel like ours, because she would take over.

I do feel really bad. I’m actually very pro extended family living together- I can see how of it works for all involved the benefits are huge. She is desperately unhappy and I know it would partially relieved if we did this (though I think not as wholly as she thinks it would be). But I can’t do it. It would put an incredible strain on my and DH’s relationship and would quite possibly destroy my mental health. I was very clear today that it wouldn’t happen, but she made me feel like the worst, most ungrateful daughter in the world. At one point she said she knew DH was the main stumbling block - and I said that honestly even if I was on my own with the DC I don’t think I would want to live together - and that went down like a lead balloon. She said I’m selfish and never consider her, and then started asking if there were courses she could go on to learn to be ‘hard’ and not to care about people. I don’t know what to do. I CANNOT do this but I don’t know how to make her accept that, and accept that I’m not evil for not wanting to. Or am I just being horrible? She says it’s jsut what people ‘do’ with elderly parents who’re alone (though she’s not elderly - she’s 61 ffs) but I don’t think it is? I don’t know anyone else in this position!!

No no no no no no no!!!!!!!!

No way! It'll never work

No way could I live with my mother much as I love her! When she was looking to move closer to us a couple of years ago we did consider going in together with an annexe situation but with that it still meant we'd have to be together a hella lot.

If your DM was 91 not 61 I'd consider it as she's likely have just a few years left (!) but at 61 you'd be stuck together for maybe 30 years!

No way!

Don't do it.
My dad has a lot of mental health issues, which made for a unpleasant childhood. He mooted the let me live with you scenario. So for 2 weeks he spent a lot of time at our house, he slowly started to revert back to how he was when I was a kid. I said no to moving in, I'm not having that round my son. He won't even come to my house now, even though I still see and speak to him. I can handle him at a distance.
You are right to be wary, it's your husband and kids who will suffer as well as you.
I would love to have a surviving parent to get on with and live with, but that's not going to happen.

The welfare and happiness of you, your DH and your DC are your priority, not your DM. Keep telling yourself that.

Obviously any ONE of your five extremely strong reasons for not doing this is more than enough of a good reason. It would break up your marriage, it would cause you mental health issues, and it wouldn’t make anyone happy, including, actually, your Mum.

She has absolutely no right to be emotionally blackmailing you as she is. My gues is she has dine this all your life.

She won’t come round to your way of thinking, she won’t depart from her high drama ‘poor me’ position, just as she will always blame you for your PND. She will never take any responsibility, just as she is taking no responsibility for finding friends and activities to make her own life better.

So what you need to do is, in effect, exactly what she suggests: go on a course to make you feel hard!

Except being resilient to other people’s emotional abuse (because that is his she is behaving) isn’t ‘hard’ it is simply understanding the situation and not becoming sucked in as a victim.

She is a fit and able middle aged woman with a considerable financial asset. You do not need to feel sorry for her or take responsibility for her insatiable drama and negativity. (Read up on narcissistic personality disorder).

You have a view of s perfect ideal family where generations and extended family live in harmony an help each other out. But you need to come to terms with the fact that you do not have that family and you can’t magically turn your Mum into that Mum.

You have done a great job telling her no, and even being clear that it isn’t all your DH. You did really well there, those conversations are not easy.

Now all you need to do is rid yourself of the guilt that she has planted in you.

Good luck OP!

100% agreed that this would be a terrible idea!

Now that you’ve written the email, does that help? Having expressed it albeit to yourself only?

In which case save it in the drafts to re read whenever you need it

Any direct response has to be short and to the point, then No mum, we don’t want to, and that’s our final decision on the matter. Then repeat.

Thank god you have your dh to back you and support you.

You don’t even need any reasons. “I don’t want to” is enough.

She sounds awful. Do not live with her. Tell her you aren’t considering it, it isn’t an option and if she keeps on about it you’ll end up not wanting to see her as much.

Also seeing her twice a week is quite a lot!

Excellent advice from Werewolf.

I live with my mother she is in a granny annex. She still owns her house and rents it out so she still has somewhere to go and I wish she would go back but I am not going to tell her that.

I had a good relationship with her before she moved in. My dad was alive and needed care so it was the perfect solution only he died soon after so I have a depressed mother here with me.
I work from home and she does not respect that. She is over my part of the house all the time. Constantly talking of her ailments and drains me completely. My heart sinks when I see her crossing the driveway. This is hard as we got on well before.
My advice is don't do it. It is impossible to go back from this living situation once you do it. I know you might get some help with the children but it will be done her way not yours. My children are 22 and 19 and they are having to help look after her by lifting her spirits. Coincidentally I am more disabled then she is, I am using a wheelchair most days. She is 80 with no mobility issues but has me at her beck and call. Please think carefully before you agree to this. I haven't read the whole thread so I am sorry if some of this has already been addressed.

And yes we gave two separate council tax bills although my mother has done exemptions towards hers.

Good letter. You can’t be responsible for her happiness, which she’s trying to guilt you into and does already by insisting on way too much weekly contact. She has to take responsibility for her own life, and if she’s unhappy or lonely then stop expecting you, her child, to fix it. Moving in with her would be a massive strain on your marriage which I doubt would survive long. Plus you’d end up hating her and miserable. What a nightmare. ☹️

I thought she was old, from what you were saying. But 61 isn't old. She could have another 30 years ahead of her! She could do some volunteering if she's lonely, or foster, or take in lodgers, go on singles holidays and look for a new man? The answer is NOT moving in with you!

Have not RTFT. Don't do it! My lovely lovely lovely lovely lovey MIL, and lovely lovely lovely lovely lovely DM are both considerably older than your DM, and would never even suggest such a thing, as they know I've had a few kids and my pelvic floor wouldn't stand up to the ensuing hilarious laughter!!
You'll be miserable, DH will be miserable, and it sounds like DM would be too!
Off to RTFT where you've probably already resolved this!

One of my friends who's just has her 64th birthday is away on a "gap year" at the moment. I'm quite angry with your mum, OP, just giving up at 61 is a complete waste of a life.

Yanbu - this would be a crazy thing to do.

I'm sure you can find a different way to help your mum. Perhaps she could downsize to move to a retirement development of some kind? One that has plenty of clubs and activities and opportunities to make new friends? Volunteering is also a good way to keep active and healthy in later years. She's still quite young and has plenty of oomph left.

I wouldn't send the letter you drafted. The written word can be more damaging than the spoken word. Speak to her face to face, with love and honesty, reiterating that you love her but could not live with her that close.

My mother mooted the same idea many years ago. She was vaguely thinking about moving, and found a lovely house which had its own appartment upstairs. Don't think it had its own kitchen, mind, but, as she gleefully pointed out, I'd have my own lounge.My answer to that was to ask when would I actually be allowed to use it.

As a teen (so when still living with her full-time), she'd yell up the stairs if I dared spend more than five minutes up there in my room. Homework was done downstairs so didn't even have that as an excuse. There was no lock on the bathroom door, and she'd just come in whenever she wanted whilst I was in the shower, so I had no privacy. It was awful, but she'd tell you it was all a sign of how close we were.

I knew that if I moved back with her in my 20s I'd have no more privacy than I had then, and there'd be little chance of me enjoying my own lounge, on my own.

Talking about it with a counsellor later, we concluded that nothing would ever be enough for her, and I strongly suspect it would be true of your mother too. Not only will she be over all hours of the day, but she'll guilt you into not letting her eat with you all the time, and coming out with you.

Don't do it. She'll bad mouth you for doing so (mine did) but your relationship with her, and with the rest of your family, will be far better if you keep to your own houses, with plenty of distance inbetween.

As others have said, her happiness is not your responsibility, however much she tries to make it so.

Sounds like she could teach the course in emotional manipulation.
You are not responsible for her happiness. She needs to find things to do join some clubs or volunteer. Even get a part time job, maybe in an estate agents if she likes looking around houses.
If you did buy together it could cause financial problems if she needed to go into a care home in the future as some of the value of the property would be attributed to pay the fees.

My estimated state retirement age us 68. I've had a relative request me to go and live with them. I refused, because it would have been under all their terms, although they are much older. My solution has been that we continue our separate lives, I visit once a month and we have some holidays together. They have gained more independance and we still have a good relationship.

I wouldn't give loads of reasons for saying no - then she will take offence at your criticisms and possibly come back with promises not to do whatever whatever - making it harder to refuse.
Just say you want to stay as a family, the DCs will get older, you are landing them with an elderly DGM in their lives until they leave home.
Just say no.

shiningstar2

Thanks

NONONONONO!!

I had a similar childhood to TimeIhadaNameChange No privacy in the bathroom, couldn't do homework etc in my room. At one point, even my bedroom door got removed from the hinges because I dared to close it.

DP and I bought a house together, slightly bigger than we actually needed as we thought good for kids, forever home etc. Parents were living abroad at the time. One day, three years later they announced that they had sold their house abroad and were coming back to the UK. To live with us. In our house. Didn't ask just assumed. Said I could live downstairs (in my own home) and they could live upstairs They had moved to a country where families living together was the norm and my dad apparently thought this was amazing. Despite moving away from his parents at 16 because he hated them

I had to put my foot down and the result was disastrous. We didn't speak for over two years. It was better than the alternative though. Please stick to your guns, OP. I know how hard this is.

Thanks for all the replies today - I’ve been reading and thinking. Still haven’t sent the message and probably won’t but my goodness it feels better to have written it all down!

Could you not just bluntly ask her why she is trying to force an issue that would be to the detriment of your family? Get up and walk out if she won't drop the subject when asked? I think an email would be too easy for her to reply to, try to talk you round, would a short sharp shock "No! Not now, or ever, now stop this" not be more effective?

If she genuinely cared that you were cramped where you are she would downsize and give you some of her equity, it's like she's trying to dangle a carrot in front of a pony...

Do not let your mother guilt you into living with her. I made that mistake and it took me years to extricate myself from the situation and had a bad effect on my DD. Stay strong and say no!