To not go on this holiday with DD?

[basketweaver2012]

I am really struggling with my 13 yr old DD.
She has always been testing and I know her hormones are all over but the last few years she has just become so horrible to everyone around her.
She will shout and carry on in public, she doesn't care, she will shout and scream at her siblings with no real reason and be really mean and every single time we go out it's always her that causes stress by being so ridiculously awkward and argumentative.
But she can flip to being lovely when she wants something in the blink of an eye but know it's all fake.
I'm really starting to dislike her and I know this makes me a horrible person. I'm so worn out with her outbursts and I'm hurt. It's hard to forget her usual behaviour when she is being pleasant.
We are due to go away for Xmas to a once in a lifetime holiday we've been saving up for for 2 years.
There are 20 of us going mainly DPs family too and I just know her behaviour is going to spoil the atmosphere when she is kicking off with DPs kids. Of course they are going to feel protective towards their own and feel cross with DD.
I really feel like pulling out and not going just to spare everyone my DD's behaviour.
It doesn't seem fair to potentially ruin other people's hard earned holiday too.
I've said if her behaviour doesn't improve she won't be going. She said fine she'll go stay with her dad.
What can I do to turn this round?
I know my attitude isn't helping. I bend over backwards to get kicked in the face on a daily basis and it's heart breaking. I worry that I'm going to loose my love for her 

You could seek some support for yourself with the parenting of her. Is there a parents support group or parents training near you? A few agencies offer courses for parenting teens. Or at least look for books on the subject.
You are jumping into the future and worrying about stuff that hasn't happened yet. It's Sept and the trip is in December. Your fear of the future keeps impacting how you are dealing with her in the here and now.
You seem very concerned with pleasing DPs family and worrying about her kicking off in front of them? You are jumping into people's heads and deciding their feelings for them. Excluding her based on this is not the right approach. Let the other family look after their own feelings.
If you want to manage your relationship and your communication with your daughter better and help support her during this difficult time, then seek help and advice for yourself.

@basketweaver2012

My teen DD is somewhat similar, I do the I love you but you cannot speak to me (your DF or anyone else like that). I make her go away to the garden or her bedroom to think about her behaviour. She always comes back and apologises. I also send her to bed early and phones etc are always downstairs after 9 pm.

It is a long and difficult road, but I can see that she is struggling with hormones and the natural urge to push parents to the limit as a teenager.

Your daughter will come out the other side, but I think you have to give her a lot of love and also consequences for bad behaviour so that she understands you love her but you are not going to be treated like dirt.

I think it is difficult being a teenager and she needs a lot of love.

Be careful of saying how well the step siblings behave and how badly behaved she is. My DD said to me yesterday, that "Daddy thinks her DB is the golden child because he is away at University" When he comes home DF is always saying how wonderful he is and how much he misses him and he spends all his time with him because he is away so much, and DD feels that she is only being told off all the time and ignored and DF only loves DB. Which is absolutely not true but it feels like it to her.

A few observations ...

1. Your dd is clearly anxious.
2. You’re not being consistent in your parenting.
3. There could be some additional needs not diagnosed.

Please, listen to your dd, deal with her in a very rigid, consistent way. Most of all, love her and accept her for who she is. Her behaviour may be challenging ... choose your battles wisely.

Personally, I don’t think taking her phone away from her while at school is a good idea ... she needs to fit in with her peers while in school. I agree taking it off her at home is a better option.

My second dc was very, very challenging. It is very difficult and unless you’ve had such a challenging child it’s not easy for someone else to fully understand. In my experience you need to work out what punishment actually works for your child, then parent very consistently. It’s absolutely exhausting but worth it in the long run.

I disagree with others who are saying don’t take her on holiday ... she will remember that rejection FOREVER ... and feel it FOREVER.

Hi op
Is your dd feeling lost right now?would this behaviour be because of something happening in her life and she doesn't know how to tell someone?

If there's 20 of you going on the trip, I don't understand how she can make everyone's life hell. If she kicks off while on holiday, then exclude them from activities until she behaves (and yes, this may mean that you have to stay with her).

It sounds like you realise that you aren't parenting well, and that other people won't put up with what you put up.

Start parenting properly - i.e. enforcing consequences - now. And tell her that you expect her to behave during the holiday, or she'll spend it in a hotel room.

I'm definitely in the send her to her dads camp. Make sure she understands that she is absolutely not going on the holiday because of her terrible behaviour.

Kids got home from school just fine without a mobile phone for years. You have to start putting your foot down properly.

I think I agree with the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" posters - but if you send her to her dad's, it will do 2 things - it will save the rest of the family from having their holiday trashed, AND it will show her that if she behaves like that she doesn't get to do the fun things.

She will probably hate you for it, yes - but she will probably hate you anyway and at least this way you get a small win out of it, in that everyone else has a decent time.

I'm sad for her but sad for you too - of course you don't want to exclude her, and I don't suppose she wants to be excluded REALLY, but if she's completely unable to wind her neck in then you have to, I think, do what's best for the majority.

My teen was horrendous around this age and you never knew if an outing would be ruined by his behaviour. I am happy to report that it has mostly subsided and he is generally calmer.

The main piece of advice is consistency, following up on punishment and talking/reassuring your teen when they are calm and able to listen better than when they are in the middle of a tantrum.

I have done confiscations of phones for long periods (a week-a month if they were really awful). It does work but you can't give them the phone back for school. If she does no clubs and just comes straight home after school then it isn't really necessary for her to keep her phone is it?

It also may not be a mental health issue - but a hormonal one. If you try to talk and engage with her when she is behaving, it may have a better impact on her.

Its not an easy phase to go through, but if she doesn't turn it around then she shouldn't go on holiday. She has two months to try though!

When ds 14 was tb frank, a total shit on holiday, him and his friend - who we paid for - got sent home on a plane.
Wish we just hadn't taken them in the first place.

I would be ready to call her bluff and leave her with her dad, but I wouldn't frame it as a "punishment" but as a consequence of her actions.

Set up the expectations for her to go on the trip and follow through with the consequences. If she follows the expectations then she gets to go on the trip (but be prepared to miss out/remove privileges if she thinks she can kick off on holiday as you're already there) if not then she cannot go and therefore must stay with her father.

I think you're right to think of others and not want her to spoil their holiday.

But she's your child and she's only 13. You need to stay at home with her.

Having two homes should never mean that you're shuttled between them as a punishment.

What Juells said about their friend's daughter pretty much described my 22 year old's teenage years, I'm afraid. And my daughter turned out to be an actual NPD. It's rarely diagnosed by clinicians, but as soon as she'd had one session with the psychologist she was sent to after (and if anyone doubts this bit, please feel free to search my threads on it from last year and the year before) she lied to the police in order to have me arrested, and they pushed for her to be assessed ASAP, they recognised traits in her which led to the near-immediate diagnosis. Whilst I'm obviously not saying that this is the case, or is going to be the case with your 13 year old, OP... please take it from someone who knows from bitter experience, that getting your child help if they need it at 13 is a hell of a lot easier than it becomes once they're an adult. And I wouldn't wish what my 13 year old son and I went through with/because of my daughter on anyone. She's rewritten history inside of her own mind to the extent that she simply denounces the truth unless it fits with her own narrative, she has no friends, her boyfriend is moving to the other end of the country (and yes; I do have a horrible suspicion it's to escape her, as he's had to call the police to stop her from hurting him once or twice), she's alienated her younger brother (who once adored her), and... I love her, but I really can't stand her. Because of what she's done to me. I look at her some days, when she's doing the whole "panic attack" breathing thing, or is screaming abuse at me (her latest is that I'm a "freak" and the old classic about no one liking me...!), and I find it difficult to reconcile who she is now with the baby I gave birth to and only ever asked that she be happy and healthy. My daughter is neither. And, sadly, may never be. If I'd known that there was help out there for her, when she was 13, I would have been knocking down doors... but I didn't know personality disorders even existed, actually, until she was 20. But now... she's trapped in a miserable existence, where she gets to be the permanent victim. And it's all her own doing, yes - but, as her mother, it does break me to witness it.

Hopefully your 13 year old is simply a hormone laden bratt... but she may not be. Talk to your GP. Describe her behaviour, the sudden shifts in mood, the walking on eggshells - and tell them that you're dreading future events, purely because you know she/her behaviour will ruin them, not just for you, but for others.

Totally feel your pain - my Ds is 13 and has just ruined our holiday with his constant tantrums, swearing and disrespectful attitude- if I had a choice I’d be leaving him with someone else.

Get her a boring brick phone with no camera, games or internet access so she can't maintain the ridiculous emotional blackmail about being abducted. You can get them for about 25 quid.

I wouldn't take her. She can spend the time with her dad.

If you cancel and pull out yourself then your other DC are being punished for DD's behaviour. That is obviously not fair on them. It could also cause them to start behaving badly (understandably quite frankly), so then you'd have more than one child's bad behaviour to deal with. It also sounds like the other DC need a break from DD's carry on.

If you take DD, then 19 other people will have their trip ruined. If I was one of those other people, I'd be absolutely livid, both with you for bringing her along, and DD for her actions.

Marie0, I thought your son was in therapy??

Distance - yes he started therapy last week and is having weekly sessions - we were only away for the weekend

I would suggest that you need to have a thorough talk with her about what's really going on for her. Bad behaviour, especially in teens, doesn't just come "out of nowhere". But there's a way you have to approach this. DON'T sit her down and say "Your behaviour is awful and you need to shape up." Rather, I would suggest the advocacy-inquiry method and the use of "I" messages. The AI method is one we use in teaching simulation situations. You identify the behaviour or communication you've observed, then ask what's behind it. Using "I" messages allows you to take ownership of your feelings so she doesn't feel attacked. For example, you could say, "I am concerned because I notice that you've been getting very upset about (be specific). I can see that you're upset. I'm wondering what's been triggering that." NEVER imply that she's overreacting or that her response isn't appropriate. That's HER reality.

Have the conversation with her re strongly considering her going to df for Christmas due to her behaviour. Be honest and say you would like her to come but youre not prepared to allow her outbursts to spoil others holiday. Shes old enough now to see the bigger picture. Tell her you love her but atm you're struggling to like her behaviour and mean what you say. If you can, talk to her dd too and try and get his support. If she keeps the behaviour up let her suck it up. She has a life lesson to learn here and ultimately you arent helping her by tolerating and even 'rewarding' her behaviour by taking her on a big holiday. Best of luck.

My DSS has ruined every holiday we have taken with him. We usually share holiday homes with friends and family - he takes his moods out on everyone. He wants their food, their seat, their bed & tries to constantly push boundaries to see what he can get from a person. It's uncomfortable as punishing him means creating an awful atmosphere for everyone else trying to enjoy their holiday. He has physically hurt other children that he's jealous of too. I honestly never want to bring him away again, he's too hard work & it's not enjoyable for anyone. Hes also 13 but this has been going on since he was 8. I find the fake niceness the hardest to deal with - when new people arrive he is ever so polite & well behaved for the first few hours. I worry about him as an adult being able to turn so quickly for no reason. Ive no advice but sending you love - it's such a horrible home life to constantly walk on egg shells

bloody hell way to ruin your DD relationship turning visiting him into a punishment shame on you. If i was her dad i would put a stop to that shit right away. Seeing her dad should not ever be used as a punishment in fact it is far worse then using food as a punishment. You turn visiting her dad into a punishment you basically shit all over any enjoyment she would have at going because its your last level of punishment. God i cannot beleive people are agreeing to the using of visiting her dad as a punishment i bet you would not like to send your child to there grandparents (your parents as a punishment as that would destory what should be a nice relentionship)

Aw, she sounds like she has a lot going on in her head and is struggling with it.

Perhaps she's struggling with where she belongs and who she's important to, if both parents have step children? Can you spend some 1-1 time with her on a weekly basis? It sounds like she may want some attention but not know how to go about it positively.

I know it's really hard for you to deal with, but being 13 isn't an easy age. For the kid or the parents.

Hang on, it's the daughter who has suggested she goes to her dad's!

I’d never leave my child out of a once in a lifetime holiday. Knowing what she was like I would never have booked a holiday in this form - 20 people going etc - in the first place. I also have a very challenging dd who is 12. We only go away as an immediate family, it’s just not worth the stress.