To not go on this holiday with DD?

[basketweaver2012]

I am really struggling with my 13 yr old DD.
She has always been testing and I know her hormones are all over but the last few years she has just become so horrible to everyone around her.
She will shout and carry on in public, she doesn't care, she will shout and scream at her siblings with no real reason and be really mean and every single time we go out it's always her that causes stress by being so ridiculously awkward and argumentative.
But she can flip to being lovely when she wants something in the blink of an eye but know it's all fake.
I'm really starting to dislike her and I know this makes me a horrible person. I'm so worn out with her outbursts and I'm hurt. It's hard to forget her usual behaviour when she is being pleasant.
We are due to go away for Xmas to a once in a lifetime holiday we've been saving up for for 2 years.
There are 20 of us going mainly DPs family too and I just know her behaviour is going to spoil the atmosphere when she is kicking off with DPs kids. Of course they are going to feel protective towards their own and feel cross with DD.
I really feel like pulling out and not going just to spare everyone my DD's behaviour.
It doesn't seem fair to potentially ruin other people's hard earned holiday too.
I've said if her behaviour doesn't improve she won't be going. She said fine she'll go stay with her dad.
What can I do to turn this round?
I know my attitude isn't helping. I bend over backwards to get kicked in the face on a daily basis and it's heart breaking. I worry that I'm going to loose my love for her 

Read PDA symptoms on the National Autistic Society website, it sounds like she is very anxious.

Not what you asked but could you get her to take some omega 3, if I don't take it my hormones get the better of me and I'm a self-confessed bitch nightmare

I don't have teenagers yet but what @LittleMissPonsible says seems sensible.

Is there any possibility of being able to get your money back? I think, rather than sending her to her Dad's, I'd pull out of the holiday altogether and have a very quiet Christmas at home, just you and her. She'll be missing out on all the fun and adventure because of her behaviour, and you can make that clear to her, but she's not being abandoned for DP and his children, which is the way her (still very young) teenage brain may interpret it if you go. If she feels some guilt at making you miss out on the holiday too, so much the better.

I would recommend reading the bit about the teenage brain in Ruby Wax's Frazzled book.

I don't know if it's the right thing to do, in parenting terms, but since she has stated that she is happy to go to her DF for Christmas I would swiftly move to finalise that (assuming he is willing).

If she objects or tries to guilt-trip you, refer her to her earler statement that she would be happy to go to her DF. She may (but probably won't) learn something from it.

Enjoy your holiday, it sounds like you deserve it.

I would talk to her openly about it, and ask her what she thinks. Does she know she does it - I mean obviously she injured but she's she acknowledge it's her doing it and but just everyone else being a bastard? Try to get her to identify the flash point that makes her shout/scream etc and make some plans for what she should do when the feeling that causes the behaviour overtakes her. Best do it when she's feeling calm .

If she won't talk about it or denies she does it, send her to her dad's.

Horrendous autocorrect sorry

My brother was like this. If it helps with light at the end of the tunnel, he is now a very respectable doctor with a lovely wife and daughters and a good relationship with the family. Still a bit self centred, but nothing like growing up, and he will always go out of his way for us.

However - my family also believed in doing everything together and he used to ruin every fecking outing and holiday. I wish my parents had left him home sometimes, to give themselves and everyone else a break, and maybe to teach him before he left home that actually we weren't all just walk on roles in his movie.

She won't get abducted! Cheap PAYG phone though, just to shut that one down.
Why are you "bending over backwards" to pacify her? Go grey-rock when she's being unpleasant, and be warm and friendly when she's being nice. If she's recently been vile and then starts wheedling for a favour, lightly and pleasantly tell her you're not really up for favours as you're still upset about the way she spoke to you earlier. And then move on with your day. If she flips and strops about it, go grey-rock again.
It's tough to carry out, but then so is what you're dealing with at the moment.
Re: the holiday, I don't think there are many of us who really and truly would refuse to take her when it really came down to her. However, you could pretend to discuss the alternatives with her (and her dad) as if it really is a possibility, but actually leave the ticket open. If she bucks her ideas up, she could then come along last minute.

Is there a chance with dp and his kids, that she’s feeling excluded from the family dynamic?

Especially if your dp only sees his kids evenings and weekend and they don’t experience the same level of discipline?

Plus the constant threat of sending her to her dads will add the exclusion and feeling of not belonging.

I was that teen and honestly it was the constant control by my mother. I felt enormous pressure to be “on” all the time, happy, smiling, nice, obedient. I wasn’t allowed opinions or thoughts, if i disagreed with anyone it was immediately me being “difficult” and my “hormones”. If i messed up in the slightest, said something that was taken the wrong way, it was immediate punishment and back to evil child status.

I couldn't keep it up. So i didn’t. I just excluded myself- easiest way was to kick off until i got excluded- Reverse psychology almost as if they thought i wanted to do something they would hold it over me...

They werr so set in the mindset i was difficult and moody they never looked at the big picture. Especially as i was an introvert with extrovert siblings who were always golden.

Take a step back and look at your dynamic. Do you treat dp’s kids the same? Are you tough on her? How would you feel if you were her.

Pick your battles. Don’t use the holiday as a threat- she will say she will go to her dads as that removes your power hold on her. Don’t make it conditional, focus on what a great time you’ll all have.

basket tell her she is going to her dads. Make all the arrangements. And see if her behaviour improves it might be the shock she needs. If she gets better take her. If not off to her dads.

we weren't all just walk on roles in his movie.

I love that phrase! I can think of a few family members just like this. Absolutely self-centred. Sadly I think personality is personality. At certain times character traits are exacerbated - toddler years and teenage years - before people are generally more socialised. And then when people are elderly... it all comes roaring back again when they lose their filter and revert to their true (and very possibly awful) personality.

she's a 13 year old child.
Of course you don't leave her behind.
You need to step up to the plate and be a parent .You don't et to dump your kid when the going gets tough.
Sheesh!

You have said to her that if her behaviour doesn’t improve she isn’t going on the holiday. You have to go through with that now. Otherwise she’ll think every threat you make to her is meaningless and she’ll carry on just the way she wants. If she says she’ll go to her dad then let her.

@FruitofAutumn I said I will pull out meaning me and all my DCs. Which isn't fair on them.
DD is the one who said she would go to her dads.
Thank you everyone for your advice so far.

This age is tricky. My teen is told to go in the garden when she becomes very rude. She takes a breather and then is better when she comes in again.

Take the phone away from her mornings and after school and follow through. Or invest in a pay as you go cheap phone for the journey with no internet or messaging facility. If she has a panic attack give her a brown paper bag but do NOT give the phone back. She is playing you.

Follow through on the phone every single time.
Fine her if she is rude. On the spot fines work well. 5 or 10gbp

Combine this with loving and caring for her. Take her out walking, to the cinema or out for lunch. Make time for her every night to talk through her problems at school. And use humour before it gets to that point, try and make light of things. I can now see the warning signs with my dd and usually it is because she is upset and it comes out in anger.
Find out if everything is okay at school and with her friends.

The kids today have a lot on their plate, they often have overload and we have to love them through all the upsets, but we still keep our boundaries firmly in place.

You need to step up to the plate and be a parent

To me that would mean consequences for making everyone's life hell.

In terms of the holiday do you have another family member that can keep an eye on her and help you with her?

With so many people going I would be amazed if she had the air time to ruin it or to make it unpleasant.

Draw up a contract and tell her if she breaks it you will fly her home. I would follow throuhg on that too, and have her df ready to collect her form the airport if need be. I wouldn't leave her behind unless she was unbearable.

I think afterwards she realises and is more willing to apologise after the event but it doesn't prevent her from being horrible to one of us.

she wont get abducted peo0ple ar too reliant on bloody phones theses days

anyway u can pick her up to shut that one down

The only thing that will change her behaviour is having clear consequences when she behaves badly.
You can’t let her get away with bad behaviour every day and then suddenly say she can’t go on the holiday.

It sounds like taking her would be very unfair to everyone else who's going and could negatively affect your long-term relationships with them. Consequently, I don't think you should take her. The question is, how to go about that and whether or not you go without her.

I think I would try to find a time when she's cooler to talk to her about it. Explain to her sincerely why she won't be going, that you feel you can't trust her to behave and that it just wouldn't be fair on everyone else. (I am stressing the importance of this explanation because I remember my sister throwing this sort of thing back at my mum for years afterwards and I don't want your DD to have more ammunition against you, if you know what I mean.)

I also quite like the star chart idea for ongoing behaviour management. It's simple and clear and cuts through all the confusing feelings and tantrums.

I would also look at cleaning up her diet and definitely consider whether there might be something else going on as well.

She won't know why she behaves like she does, because there isn't a reason.It is her hormones and development stage.You just need to weather the storm!

Re the phone - I would buy an additional, cheap, dumb phone with only a few emergency numbers saved in it and give her that when you need to take her phone off her.

It sounds like she needs to be excluded and face some consequences. Maybe she would be devastated - but that’s not a good enough reason to let her go when her behaviour is so awful. She has to learn that you have limits and will enforce them. Tell her that if you don’t see a significant improvement she won’t be going. Tell her that it’s because if her terrible behaviour continues she will ruin the holiday for others and you have a responsibility to them too. And if she continues to be awful, she can spend Christmas with her dad and learn an important lesson that will serve her well for the rest of her life.