To not go on this holiday with DD?

[basketweaver2012]

I am really struggling with my 13 yr old DD.
She has always been testing and I know her hormones are all over but the last few years she has just become so horrible to everyone around her.
She will shout and carry on in public, she doesn't care, she will shout and scream at her siblings with no real reason and be really mean and every single time we go out it's always her that causes stress by being so ridiculously awkward and argumentative.
But she can flip to being lovely when she wants something in the blink of an eye but know it's all fake.
I'm really starting to dislike her and I know this makes me a horrible person. I'm so worn out with her outbursts and I'm hurt. It's hard to forget her usual behaviour when she is being pleasant.
We are due to go away for Xmas to a once in a lifetime holiday we've been saving up for for 2 years.
There are 20 of us going mainly DPs family too and I just know her behaviour is going to spoil the atmosphere when she is kicking off with DPs kids. Of course they are going to feel protective towards their own and feel cross with DD.
I really feel like pulling out and not going just to spare everyone my DD's behaviour.
It doesn't seem fair to potentially ruin other people's hard earned holiday too.
I've said if her behaviour doesn't improve she won't be going. She said fine she'll go stay with her dad.
What can I do to turn this round?
I know my attitude isn't helping. I bend over backwards to get kicked in the face on a daily basis and it's heart breaking. I worry that I'm going to loose my love for her 

Are your other dc her half siblngs? I fear she is challenging you to omit her but will then always have the ammunition that you took them and not her, if you did. Include her but make it clear misbehaviour will not be tolerated. If needs be you will need to be prepared to separate her from others if she kicks off. Is she often like this at home, school with her df?

Kids this age can drive you insane argh

I kinda think you'll regret taking her bc let's face it, she'll ruin it for everyone. Maybe she needs to go to her dad's and, if she can get her act together between now and then, invoke plan b which is some sort of treat for her.

My kids went through a horrible phase of bickering which made holidays a bit miserable so I went to a parenting coach for advice on changing the dynamic. I got some great ideas and the kids were very open to trying new ways of doing stuff. Wasn't a magic bullet but certainly improved things.

One thing I can tell you is that if you keep doing what you're doing the outcome will be the same. Something has to change

It also helped me a lot when I realised this is not 'her' it is the storm inside of her.

If you look closely most teens look appalled by their own behaviour at times, almost like they can't believe they are being like this.

Hold on to the lovely girl she is inside, she is still there and will be back. And remember to love her unconditionally throughout this stage, but don't be a walkover. Build in lots of time for your other children so they can be away from this behaviour too.

Send her to her dad's why should everyone suffer including your other kids I think your other kids might start to think you favour her and she rules the house plans. If I was the other children I would really hate being their sibling.

My older sister was a complete bitch from the ages of 12-17. My parents always threatened sanctions and never followed them through. It meant that many events were ruined by her behaviour and I often missed out due to my parents pulling us all out of events to prevent her ruining them. The resentment I felt and still feel is palpable and has damaged our relationship.

My advice (and I now work with difficult teenagers) is to talk to her when she is calm about the options. Arrange the back up of her staying with her father but continue to plan for her to join you on the holiday. If she then behaves badly be firm with her and explain that it is down to her behaviour and her behaviour alone. She will feel hurt but you need to start holding boundaries with her. Don't punish your other children for her behaviour.

It's so difficult to know what's going on in this situation, because we only have the OP's POV. Do you have step-children who live with you some of the time, is her nose out of joint because of that? Does her father have step-children living with him, and if not could that be why she says she's willing to go there rather than on the holiday?

It does sound like a nightmare at the moment. I'm very easy-going, but I wouldn't be able to tolerate the behaviour you describe, my younger DD used to kick off at that age and I came down on her like a ton of bricks :( Teenagers really have to learn that they're not the centre of the universe, and other people have feelings too.

Sorry to be so waffly and unhelpful, but who knows how the situation looks from the child's side? Does she think she has some legitimate grievance - maybe even one she can't put into words?

I'd pull out of the holiday altogether and have a very quiet Christmas at home, just you and her

I feel like that's almost rewarding her behaviour though, and op misses out because she cant behave herself.

I'd pull out of the holiday altogether and have a very quiet Christmas at home, just you and her

op has other kids.

Have you had decent amounts of one to one time with her? spoken to her about what's going on and what she is feeling to kick off etc? when she is calm?

I would speak to her calmly and rationally and try to help her see that the way she resolves things is unsustainable and hurts everyone so that for the greater good she must see that if she carries on with this, the ONLY option you have is to leave her at home with her dad and go without her.

I agree that explaining that you know it's the storm and not her as a person, but that until she learns to manage how she is feeling, and get a control over it, that decisions need to be made to protect everyone else.

There is NO reason why YOU should miss out, or her siblings.

If she does go on the holiday (and I think you do have to keep that option open) then tell her that she will be sent back to her hotel room if she misbehaves because you will not tolerate her wrecking it for everyone else.

Tell her that you want her to go with you and to have a lovely time, but if she cannot improve her behaviour between now and departure then she will leave you with no option but to send her to her Dad's. Say that you would find that disappointing, but that you will definitely follow it through because you have to consider the other family members who want to relax and enjoy themselves, not just her. The ball will then be in her court.

I think she needs some tough love - giving her the option to start behaving better or she will not be joining you all and actually follow through. It's really not fair to everyone else or to your other kids to have their holiday spoilt.
She will only take you seriously if she knows there are actual consequences.

We all were teens and tbh this hormones excuse is always used to justify this horrid behaviour. She can be hormonal and still respectful. I would be much harder on her else you are heading for bigger problems.

@basketweaver33
I said I will pull out meaning me and all my DCs. Which isn't fair on them.
DD is the one who said she would go to her dads.

This is precisely why you shouldn't do it. She isn't problem-solving for you here. It's a bit like when my DD at 3 said she didn't want a sticker on the sticker chart anyway. She's seeing your threats as a way of you controlling her so she is rejecting that as a method of incentivising/punishing her. And also continuing to take the fight to you.

Not taking her on holiday is massive, disproportionate escalation of a situation which you can handle with a bit of consistency. As I mentioned upthread read something about teenage brain development, grey rock the outbursts, spend time and communicative when she is receptive. It's fucking exasperating, but this too will pass.

then tell her that she will be sent back to her hotel room if she misbehaves because you will not tolerate her wrecking it for everyone else.

It's one thing to threaten that, but I'd never send a 13-year-old back to a hotel room when abroad. She could be out the door and off getting into trouble as soon as your back was turned.

^^ see my post above I cross posted and agree with @LIZS .

She's challenging you not to take her.

My expectation was that she will be coming, and she will be behaving decently. If you exclude her she has no reason to behave before or after. You've given her the perfect get out clause for resentment and anger.

DPs kids are with us some of the week and are generally lovely kids and I know that DDs outbursts sometimes upset them although they are growing used to it now.
Her father lives with his newish gf and her 2 kids, she adores him but I know she behaves badly there too and often rings me to come and get her when she's fallen out with her dad. Which I don't do by the way.
Her DF imo isn't all that arsed and while he has them regularly he doesn't spend time with them alone. IF i offer him for them to stay home he will always accept. As a result my other DC isn't that fussed about going anymore as he doesn't see the point but DD will defend DF to the hilt to her siblings.

My childhood was a bit as reallyanotherone describes. Very very controlled by my mother. By my teens I was so fed up of being expected to measure up to this “girl” my mother (and father) decided I should be, act how she decided I should act that at times it was too much. Then I would go absolutely ballistic. Scream the house down. Now I’m not saying I would have been calm and easy to get along with but my outbursts were largely due to the control from my mother and abuse from her and the awful things my brother did to me and she turned a blind eye. So she decided I was Satan’s spawn. Consequently I kept out of her and brother’s way as much as possible.

Your eldest dd is telling you something is wrong. Please listen. You now need to figure out what that is either between you or with outside help of some kind. Don’t send her to her dads house for Christmas. She will feel even more excluded. This will in the long run make her behaviour worse not better.

I'm generally not as hard on DPs kids as my own but I will always pull them up if needed but to be honest they don't often need it. Just a reminder to put stuff back or tidy up after themselves.

Your eldest dd is telling you something is wrong. Please listen.

This. You're focusing on a holiday, when there's really a much bigger issue to deal with.

Just out of curiosity: Does she idolise her Dad? Friends of ours had this with their son. He treated his Dad like dirt because his mother had told him all sorts of lies about his Father. Eventually though the son fell out with his scheming mother and the scales fell from his eyes and he saw what she was actually like. He now lives full time with his father ( our friends) and is happy.
Perhaps sending her to her Dads will show her the grass isn’t always greener. Of course this may not be the issue. I don’t know your private life.

Your eldest dd is telling you something is wrong. Please listen

I don't always agree with this, yes sometimes this is the case, but some kids are just badly behaved and bratty when they don't get their own way.

The more I read about the situation the more I feel sorry for her. There's nowhere that's 'her's' really, is there? I can imagine being that age and floating around between DF and DM and there are other children in both places - well-behaved children who don't get told off.

Maybe a PP was right who suggested you stay at home with her instead? Maybe she's sick of playing happy blended families when she feels like she's just a nuisance?

his scheming mother and the scales fell from his eyes

Wonder what the scheming mother's side of the situation is?

Wonder what the scheming mother's side of the situation is?

oh god if a man gets accused of something like this, its immediately believed, but god forbid a woman can be a horrible shit. They do exist, you know.

if a man gets accused of something like this, its immediately believed, but god forbid a woman can be a horrible shit. They do exist, you know.

I know they do, but the words 'scheming mother' just struck me.

some mothers can be scheming believe it or not.... dss lives with us because he was sick of listening to his mother harp on about how awful me and his dad were.