Macron's behaviour is despicable Part two

[Snowymountainsalways]

The thread was closed as it has exceeded 1000 posts.

I have reopened another one in hope that we will be able to discuss with honesty the Salzburg summit, both sides of the brexit debate and with cordiality. This is not a place for venting. Please do that elsewhere. This is a place for polite debate and conversation.

Around dinner tables and on the touch lines we are talking about the future of the brexit deal, if there is a future with the EU or not and what the options are for us now.

I voted to remain, and I am unhappy with the impasse. I had expected and hoped for progress. It did not happen.

Macron descended into name calling, and Tusk posted jokes and photos that are not in the least bit funny about a diabetic person. It was unsettling and disturbing to see how disrespectful they were to our PM TM. So we consider where we are this morning.

Thoughts?

Macron did nothing but say it as it is Why did he say it?

The EU never wanted a deal in the first, they have only ever wanted a pretend Brexit (BRINO). It looks like they expected Theresa to play along by doing what she was told, but were very surprised when she stood up for the UK and their reaction was clearly 2 fingers up to her/us.

Leavers didn't like Checkers but I think we could have stomached it as a first stage to actually leaving, however that bridge is burning now. A WTO is probably the most likely outcome, with a smaller possibility of a Canada plus deal.

I really don't see anyway we can reverse Brexit, the well has been poisoned. The UK will not just stay quiet and surrender, Theresa is clearly not for turning.

@derxa some interesting reading here: www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0921/995292-salzburg-chronic-misreading/

I don't know why Macron said it now, though it is true; it may be that EU leaders were irked by May's Die Welt op-ed and her (apparently) tone-deaf behaviour at the summit dinner. Or it may be that the EU has decided that enough is enough. The moment of truth had to come eventually; it may be that Macron thinks the can has been kicked far enough down the road.

Consider the reverse question - is there anything stopping UK working with Barnier on Canada variants? There’s nothing intrinsic preventing either side working together is there - despite tone of recent exchanges and tendency of some posters to portray these as a breakdown in negotiations?

Canada option would be very damaging to UK; failure of EU dependent JIT manufacturing at end of transition period, uncertainty of UK status with respect to 100s existing international agreements, border checks on food imports/exports etc... Don’t think that’s what TM and UK want. No deal just brings forward these impacts to Mar ‘19. EEA/EFTA+CU is least damaging Brexit option by far.

Your preferred remain option would retain all existing EU rights for UK DCs, retain access to 100s of international trade agreements, retain existing FOM of goods within EU, provide UK with voice and veto on developing EU policy including ability to shape changing immigration policy and/or resisting further integration , retain access to key security infrastructure (eg galileo), etc...

UK politics is in a state of flux; you and all contributors & lurkers, both leave and remain should consider whether they are content with the current direction of UK in its departure from the EU. If you have concerns express these to your MP, join marches, engage with those who voted differently to you and make them aware of the issues and likely impacts, consider organising disruptive action at work to highlight the issues to a wider audience... it is not too late to influence the outcome.

OP, Macron said what he did because May had that morning had a conversation with the Irish PM in which she had said that their proposal on the border would not be ready by October. That's wholly unacceptable.

There had also been a strong rumour (believed by many) that the British are getting ready to cut standards to have a competitive edge - something that the EU is rightly concerned about.

Macron seems to have spoken because TM has a real knack for radiating the impression that she can do just as she likes and many EU leaders are seriously concerned she will not resolve these matters and still expect a deal.

Ethel after carefully weighing up the arguments I decided it was a price I was willing to pay especially for my dc.

So the OP never got round to telling us why being a parent was so crucial to views on Brexit.

Ethel after carefully weighing up the arguments I decided it was a price I was willing to pay especially for my dc.

Why? Do you really hate your children or something?

@autumnwindy
And what are your DC’s thoughts on the matter?

autumnwindy so you're happy to have taken the option of working and studying in 27 other countries away from your children... Wow. Just wow.

Is anyone else dying with laughter that Snowymountainsalways started this thread at 9:01 this morning, and clocked off at 17:06?

PerkingFaintly so s/he's already put more hours into "negotiating" Brexit than David Davis did?!??

Can I give the OP some feedback for her annual review, please? Her work here has been absolutely rubbish. 😀

From my observations of the bit of British society I live in: my kids are highly unlikely to be able to carve a career in most EU countries. Ireland might be an option but not likely economically from what I know.of distant family over there. They are not bilingual so they would have to choose to study and immerse themselves in one of the other languages. Choosing which one is only the first hurdle.

I've been told by more than one Italian it's all about who you know when it comes to getting a job there. These people have moved to work abroad and I don't know how typical their experience may be.

Germany seems tricky even for people I know who are bilingual, they've chosen the UK job market though I have to say im not sure why.

French businesses are loath to employ even French people , mind you investing in avoiding hiring staff helps their productivity numbers.

The likes of Poland and Romania offer little monetary incentive plus they are not languages with much international use. How open their job markets are to non native speakers I have never heard tell.

My kids would like to work in US, Australia or Singapore.

I understand many mumsnetters have different experiences and some posters are in multilingual homes but Iwant to explain why for me job and study opportunities for my children is not an argument that affected my vote.

I was struck that the op didn't know the MP referred to upthread.

They are not bilingual so they would have to choose to study and immerse themselves in one of the other languages

So? My brother worked i Norway for years. He only speaks English. Lots of my dh’s colleagues work in Germany, very few speak German - although they do try and learn while there for social reasons.

That's interesting.

Do you mind me asking what sectors they work in?

Although to be fair, now that I've looked, she did post on the other thread this morning.

Start time maybe just an unfortunate coincidence then.

In my experience a very large proportion of British people working in European countries do not speak the local language fluently, at least when they start work.

I work in France for the French subsidiary of a British company, and at least 99% of my work is conducted in English (though I do speak French).

Learning a foreign language is useful for working in Europe but in practice most people learn after they move not before.

veryberry

Construction and manufacturing (very high spec). I have friends in pharma who have moved to Europe too.

Agree with PP, "after carefully weighing up the arguments I decided it was a price I was willing to pay especially for my dc."

How can anyone look their children in the eye and tell them, "my grandparents died to keep our country free but I decided to give it away shrug because I was scared we wouldn't be able to look after ourselves."

I nearly posted this earlier: it is a surprise to no one that the Brexit campaign lied - Emanuel Macron has said nothing we haven't heard before. I think the key thing is that some people don't like Johnny Foreigner saying it. I thought Theresa's May's "be nice to us speech" was laughable.

Tbf it's only tbe OP who has taken a brisk dislike to M. Macron for being so very rude/ despicable.

I can't say it's caused a ripple in our house or among anyone I know.

Two threads worth is overkill.

When a lying liar tells lies what exactly are you supposed to called them if not a liar?