Macron's behaviour is despicable Part two

[Snowymountainsalways]

The thread was closed as it has exceeded 1000 posts.

I have reopened another one in hope that we will be able to discuss with honesty the Salzburg summit, both sides of the brexit debate and with cordiality. This is not a place for venting. Please do that elsewhere. This is a place for polite debate and conversation.

Around dinner tables and on the touch lines we are talking about the future of the brexit deal, if there is a future with the EU or not and what the options are for us now.

I voted to remain, and I am unhappy with the impasse. I had expected and hoped for progress. It did not happen.

Macron descended into name calling, and Tusk posted jokes and photos that are not in the least bit funny about a diabetic person. It was unsettling and disturbing to see how disrespectful they were to our PM TM. So we consider where we are this morning.

Thoughts?

My dis was spitting mad that he couldn't vote, despite having strong and informed views and the fact that it affects his future.

He was able to vote in last year's Council elections. He has just started studying Politics and International Relations at Uni at the beginning on the month (having, up until last year, been planning in studying Maths/Physics/Astrophysics - but still got the AH Maths prize for his school which he couldn't collect as he'd already started Uni ).

He is more informed than most many on here: while we were on our pre-Uni IKEA shopping trip, he grilled me on my opinion of BRICS and whether the UK was likely/should be admitted to the group

The positive for him and me is that Brexit is that a hard Brexit will being forward Scottish independence but at an unacceptable cost: the well being of the poorest and most vulnerable across the UK but especially England

Unfortunately, all of my many European ancestors are each one generation too far to claim EU citizenship (Irish, German, Danish....). So Scotland, of which we are proud citizens, remains our best bet

But I did used to be also be able to speak Russian (as well as still being fluent in French), so who knows?

prettybird

Ds1 wasnt a happy bunny either

His nana did say that after listening to him soeak on the subject that she changed her mind and voted remain

I did say that i woukd vote whatever he decided....thank fuck we both agreed on that one!!!

How can anyone look their children in the eye and tell them, "my grandparents died to keep our country free but I decided to give it away shrug because I was scared we wouldn't be able to look after ourselves."

Given that most people who actually fought in WW2 voted to stay in the EEC in 1975 (knowing that the premise of the Treaty of Rome was "ever closer Union"), that statement is fallacious.

My dad is 81. He was 79 at the time if the EU referendum. He was three when WW2 started. His mother was half German, half English, born just before WW1 started, so brought up in neutral Denmark. He voted Remain. He understood (and understands) what division in Europe means.

From her logic, I presume that walkingdeadfangirl would be an enthusiastic supporter of Scottish Independence, as the main argument of the No campaign was that Scotland was too wee, too poor, too stupid to survive on its own (only it didn't plan on being on its own: it planned on being part of the EU, where it would've had more of a vote - and been listened to more - than it does in WM )

The idea many remainers have about their kids future amazing careeers in Spain Portugal Germany , Greece? Have been ruined by brexit.....give your heads a wobble. Most British kids haven’t got a second language, very few want to work in Europe , there are more opportunities in London alone than many EU countries put together. Even after brexit visas will be available people it’s not like the UK will be a prison . Remoaners are ridiculous.

You think the fact that 'most kids haven't got a second language' is something we should feel fine about (assuming it's true)? And where do you get your 'very few want to work in Europe' from? Done a poll have you? Plus 'more opportunities in London than many EU countries put together' a) doesn't mean anything and b) is becoming increasingly unlikely as more and more businesses move their bases out of London and into more sensible countries.

Everything about your post is lazy, unsupported shite or hackneyed meaningless cliche. Being stuck in a country with this kind of thinking feels like a prison for sure.

5Yearplan4000

Anyone who uses the non word "remoaner" is clearly an absolute cretin.

So are Brexit threads now allowed in AIBU MNHQ?

Is this a Brexit thread or it it about a French mans abusing behaviour toward Theresa?

There is a cross over but Macron has stepped crossed a line and we should call it out.

It could not by any stretch of the imagination be called 'abusive'. (Or abusing if you prefer). I know leavers enjoy using their imaginations to their fullest extent however.

Agreed walkingdead, more and more people should expose lies told in the name of fictitious brexitland

My Grandad fought in WW2 and he was pro EU. He'd be squashing walkingdead's argument pretty hard if he were here. Don't claim the war veterans. They're not yours to make a point with.

@snowymountainsalways

Put it to bed. I dont care if you feel offended with what he said.
He is right —> they lied
You (as in voters) believed them
The choice was made by a tiny majority
You believe in democracy?
So now you need to live with the consequrnces.

You expect your child not to use the word liar? Dont you expect your child to make s choice and accept the consequences?
Thats the learning part of growing up and that is why children have parentscto guide them so they learn from their mistakes.

Well this instance is no too disimilar except here the “parents” ie. Uk gouverment and politicians has lied yes and has failed the very people they should guide.

Tough shit but dont go accuse Macron when he merely said the truth.

Is this a Brexit thread or it it about a French mans abusing behaviour toward Theresa?

Please share with the class why you think Macron's comments were even referring to Theresa May, let alone abusive towards her.

We'll wait.

All I’ve seen is a load of simpering women talking about how good looking he is.
& I thought this was a site for intelligent feminist women

walkingdeadfangirl
My dad fought in ww2. Not my grandad.
It really fucks me off when people talk about old soldiers. Nearly all off them are dead. My dad is dead.
He was pro eu. I know because we talked about it.
He fought so we had a prosperous peaceful future.
In my experience people who spout this crap know nothing about history.
Maybe you should read up about what Europe was like in the 1930s. We're creating the same conditions.

But surfer, I have asked the OP about a thousand times, and now walkingdeadfangirl, to explain why they think Macron was even talking about Theresa May in his comments, and am just getting radio silence. I haven't mentioned his looks at all (I don't find him particularly attractive tbh), I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what is causing this confusion. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

I personally don’t think he was talking about TM, he was talking about the leave campaign.
But that aside, why is it impossible to leave the EU? Are we prisoners?

surferjet You raise an important point.

I don't think it is technically impossible to leave the EU. Unless the government decides to retract the article 50 notification before the end of March or the withdrawal period is extended and then Brexit is later scrapped altogether, we will, as a matter of fact and law, leave the EU, proving that it is very much possible.

I don't believe it is possible to leave the EU without doing an unacceptable amount of damage to ourselves and others. Economic damage, yes. But perhaps not as much economic damage as a member state which is in the euro zone might do to itself. But for us I think the particular issue which makes it almost impossible to leave without destroying the country as we know it is the border issue. Despite being to all intents and purposes an island, I think this makes leaving the EU more complicated for us and Ireland than it would be for any other member (unless we both decided to leave). The fact is, Northern Ireland cannot leave the single market and customs union without all the work that was done on the peace process being completely undone, and if Northern Ireland gets to remain in the single market and customs union then Scotland will insist on the same and then the UK will break up and there will have to be a border between England and Scotland.

If these issues had been properly acknowledged before the referendum, I don't think we would have even had one.

And if I'm honest, I think if we don't leave the EU, you may be right that leaving it is impossible (for us at least) because who will try again after our experience?

This is it. If we cave in now and end up staying, we’ll be there for ever. We will basically be at the EUs mercy because they’ll just have an attitude of ‘ shut up UK, you’re nothing without us, remember when you tried to leave?’
Do we really want that?

My dm uses the war to justify her dislike of Germans (refusing to shop in Aldi etc). She was born after the war but I suppose she got it from her parents. But let’s be honest, it’s just racism which does no one any good. As a Jewish person we shouldn’t accept racism or hang overs from the Second World War as a justification for throwing away our economic future. The EU has been an enormously positive force in Europe.

This is it. If we cave in now and end up staying, we’ll be there for ever.

But we will at least still be intact.

Of course it would have been better not to go down this path in the first place, but continuing down it will still be more painful and humiliating than doing a U turn.

Re youngsters and working in Europe firstly many rely on the job security of their parents. My dp works in IT within the financial sector. Prior to Brexit there were hoards of jobs and agencies advertising jobs within Europe. Most didn't need a second language if you're English speaking. With Brexit many financial jobs will be moving to Europe( Frankfurt wants to take over from London as the main financial base) so there will be less here and he will be shut out of jobs in Europe. His kids need his financial security and I'm guessing the country likes the tax he pays.

Re our kids. Prior to Brexit my kids were hoping to go to Europe for uni- top English speaking courses with no debt. Interestingly they weren't alone,it was becoming more popular and I've heard many a disappointed conversation now it is no longer a possibility.

Said kids are looking at careers in science,tech and engineering. Much of our science funding came from the EU, the Medicines agency is moving to Holland and lord knows how many jobs in all sectors are going to be lost to Europe when they move that they will now be shut out of. This isn't just degree level jobs but a whole variety across all sectors. I know so many respected workers in all sectors seriously worried. They're not worried because they like little blue stickers on their cars but because they can see the shit really hitting the fan.

On top of that China is now becoming the next big thing re tech overtaking silicone valley( which our youngsters are pretty much shut out of too if they don't have an elusive green card). We were stronger with Europe in completion. Now we are alone,tiny and shut out of a far bigger job market.

So my kids care- a lot. Yours will too eventually but by then it will be too late.

I was struck that OP sounds exactly like a Russian troll would. Right down to...

I haven't got all day to post about brexit. Have a good weekend.

There have been budget cutbacks at the IRA so I won't be back on shift until Monday

ps:

This is it. If we cave in now and end up staying, we’ll be there for ever. We will basically be at the EUs mercy because they’ll just have an attitude of ‘ shut up UK, you’re nothing without us, remember when you tried to leave?

What does being at the EUs mercy look like?
There are definitely flaws but for me the benefits of being in the EU vastly outweigh the pain of leaving.

Is the U.K. population really so thin skinned they can’t cope with the rest of Europe occasionally reminding us that trying to leave was a disaster?