Macron's behaviour is despicable Part two

[Snowymountainsalways]

The thread was closed as it has exceeded 1000 posts.

I have reopened another one in hope that we will be able to discuss with honesty the Salzburg summit, both sides of the brexit debate and with cordiality. This is not a place for venting. Please do that elsewhere. This is a place for polite debate and conversation.

Around dinner tables and on the touch lines we are talking about the future of the brexit deal, if there is a future with the EU or not and what the options are for us now.

I voted to remain, and I am unhappy with the impasse. I had expected and hoped for progress. It did not happen.

Macron descended into name calling, and Tusk posted jokes and photos that are not in the least bit funny about a diabetic person. It was unsettling and disturbing to see how disrespectful they were to our PM TM. So we consider where we are this morning.

Thoughts?

Thanks for that, surfer. I've lived here for 21 years. Always worked. I am a net contributor to the Exchequer. Thanks for saying that what I feel doesn't matter - I have lived here almost half my life. I have contributed to your country. You've really shown your true colours here.

Most clueless blue flag waving remainers were itching for us to join the Euro in the late 90s early 2000s and at the time were ridiculing anyone who didn’t want to join as a racist “little Englander” saying we’d be left far behind by not joining monetary union. If we’d not kept hold of our own currency in 2008 when the GFC hit we’d have been in the same level of crisis as Ireland, Greece and others. I will never listen to those extolling the virtues of the Eu in blind faith. They are so wrong.

5year evidence for your statement re remainers' desire to join the Euro, please. Otherwise it's just another one of your many opinions.

Accusing Remainers of blind faith is not-so-delicious irony.

And the fact is as the years go by and the Brexiteers die off remainers are going to be joined by youngsters angry at having to pick up the pieces of something they never voted for clamouring to rejoin the EU which will be incredibly difficult and expensive. We’ll also end up with a far worse deal and less standing than we have now. It’s utter madness. And all because a load of Tory Eton boys( many of whom didn’t even want Brexit)were pissing about within the Tory party. You were played and manipulated by the rich, one day I suspect there will be anger about that too. It’s just heartbreaking. I know it’s going to happen but it’s shite watching it happen. I’ve never enjoyed the feeling of I told you so less. It’s just grim.

You still haven’t answered my question.

If you’ve been here years, why haven’t you applied for UK citizenship?

Surfer your comment to pointy things was out of order. Apologise. Many EU nationals have been paying taxes for years and have children who are British. Of course their opinion matters. If you think yourself qualified to comment on the EU others are qualified to comment on the UK.

Because she didn't have to did she? And now she does have to maybe the cultural act of aligning herself with the kind of bigoted nationalist you are exposing yourself as rankles.

Oh, & for all those saying France don’t want to leave the EU, how about you listen to your hero.

FRENCH president Emmanuel Macron shocked Andrew Marr during their interview when he admitted that had France held a referendum on membership of the EU after Brexit, the French people would vote to leave

We appear to be part of a recurring theme...

I am glad that @5yearplan has just volunteered to make up the shortfall in my pension out of his/her pocket.
Having been paying into the UK tax and NI system for 45 years, part of the leaver's plan is to deny it to anyone who moves out of the UK.

If you’ve been here years, why haven’t you applied for UK citizenship?

Because FOM. No need.

surferjet at first because I didn't have the money to do it for myself and both DDs. It would have been around £6k and we had a mortgage and childcare to pay.

Then later because I saw the way the wind was blowing, and because my country doesn't allow dual citizenship. Right now that lovely burgundy passport is worth a lot more to me and my DDs than the blue one that's coming. DD2 is technically eligible for citizenship because I was 'settled' when she was born; DD1 isn't by one year.

All three of us ultimately see our future outside the UK but DDs are in a crucial stage of their education. When the time comes, I will sell up and take myself and my money (we actually have some now!) out of the UK. We will miss the many friends we have made and the family we have here, but we won't miss the xenophobia and delusions of Empire reborn that have come to dominate this place.

And thanks, Mookatron but I really didn't expect any better from the likes of surfer.

FRENCH president Emmanuel Macron shocked Andrew Marr during their interview when he admitted that had France held a referendum on membership of the EU after Brexit, the French people would vote to leave

Which is why he recognises that having a referendum on it would be fucking stupid. He's not about to repeat Cameron's mistake.

Oh, & for all those saying France don’t want to leave the EU, how about you listen to your hero.
Surfer, what is wrong with you? I know debate isn't your strong point, but Macron is not our 'hero'. We simply don't agree that he was insulting to Theresa May or the British people, which is a totally different thing.

My dad goes to South Africa regularly which has its own share of problems : they are watching what is happening in the UK with their gast well and truly flabbered. Their comments the ones that are repeatable are that the UK's standing in the world has been greatly diminished. Whereas the UK was once viewed on as a stable force in the world, it is now a laughing stock, voluntarily shooting itself in the foot.

Another of Dad's friends, who was a high level businessman in the States (retired now) and a Republican to boot (but not a Trump supporter) is horrified at what the UK is doing. He says it is nearly as embarrassing as being an American under Trump . Dad (left wing) and he used to have lots of friendly arguments - but at the moment they can't find anything to disagree on . The friend has even come round to seeing why many in Scotland want away from WM shackles independence.

We simply don't agree that he was insulting to Theresa May or the British people, which is a totally different thing.

I keep asking the leavers to explain which part of Macron's comment they think was referring to Theresa May or the British people but they seem to have developed selective blindness and have not seen my question any of the times I have posted it.

Mookatron
I’m qualified to comment on the EU because I’m a British citizen who was allowed to vote.
Is that ok with you?

And prettybird is entitled to comment on the UK because free speech is a thing. And also because she lives in the UK and is a UK taxpayer and actually contributes meaningfully to the economy unlike some leave voters. But mostly because of the free speech thing.

That's also why people like Emmanuel Macron and Barack Obama and people's friends in the USA and South Africa are entitled to an opinion too.

Sorry you don't like that. Shall we have a referendum on whether people who don't support Brexit should be allowed to speak? Or even live in the UK? Good luck with the economy if a substantial majority of the most productive people leave and go elsewhere.

I didn't say you weren't qualified. I told you not to tell others their opinions don't matter. And I used words rather than emojis.

And I'm qualified to comment on the EU because I'm a citizen of the EU and because I live and pay taxes in the UK. Taxation/representation, anyone?

Ironically pretty sure plenty of UK nationals who have lived and worked for years in Europe will be clamouring to stay and to keep their purple passports too.

And I feel for those UK citizens... The 15 year rule is bonkers. I'm still eligible to vote in the Dutch general election - registering as an overseas voter is really straightforward and I make a point of voting. I've also always voted in local and EU elections whilst here.

Puzzled, as it happens, I earn a bit of dosh taking surveys (plus I design surveys for work, so it's useful to see good and bad ideas in other people's surveys).

What usually happens to me is YouGov invites to a consumer product or company reputation survey (I guess this is based on wanting someone of my profile), then at end YouGov tags on some questions about current affairs.

After that, AFAIK, they probably adjust their results statistically to be more reflective of general population. So if they only get 60% of their target number of males age 18-25, they inflate that share of answers to reflect the actual proportion of males age 18-25 in the population. (This problem they're fixing is called under-ascertainment). If they get too many women age 55-64 they might reduce their weight in the survey.

but yeah, sure, you can't rely on one sample. It's when you get multiple surveys with data collected by different methods with same basic results, that there can be a lot of confidence. it does seem like Leave voters have much more old fashioned values. Wouldn't we expect that? Much older age profile, too, than avg. Remain voters (I thought).

the (unelected) commission suggests laws (bit like unelected civil servants in Westminster) and MEPs vote on whether or not to implement them

Not quite; as so often the devil's in the detail. The Commission can act completely alone in some areas (monopolies, company concessions and the right of workers to remain in a state where they're employed). They can also act with the Council but without Parliament on external tariffs and, crucially, in negotiating trade agreements. Even worse, if the Commission rejects amendments it can force the Council to forego an ordinary democratic majority, insisting that it acts unanimously instead