Macron's behaviour is despicable Part two

[Snowymountainsalways]

The thread was closed as it has exceeded 1000 posts.

I have reopened another one in hope that we will be able to discuss with honesty the Salzburg summit, both sides of the brexit debate and with cordiality. This is not a place for venting. Please do that elsewhere. This is a place for polite debate and conversation.

Around dinner tables and on the touch lines we are talking about the future of the brexit deal, if there is a future with the EU or not and what the options are for us now.

I voted to remain, and I am unhappy with the impasse. I had expected and hoped for progress. It did not happen.

Macron descended into name calling, and Tusk posted jokes and photos that are not in the least bit funny about a diabetic person. It was unsettling and disturbing to see how disrespectful they were to our PM TM. So we consider where we are this morning.

Thoughts?

It would seem a few of us are. Personally I could cope.

Saving Face is a stupid reason to Leave!
Oh wait, Bubbles of Pride in traditional British things is why BeLeavers voted for Leave. Us Remoaners are to blame for any failures in negotiations b/c we don't BeLieve enough. Pah.

Given the economic damage of leaving the EU why not remain and engage more intensively and positively with the EU to change policies that the UK find difficult (eg immigration). As a full member we have veto and influence and their are other nations that want to change elements of the EU.

YeOldeTrout that graph is the most depressing 5hing I have seen about Brexit. It confirms all my worst fears and my lowest expectations.

Please, please can a Brexit supporter explain why it is incorrect and tell me they don't think it's true.

That isn't my country, that isn't a country I want to live in, they aren't people I want to know.

It is indeed possible to leave the EU - but it should have been acknowledged that it would be difficult and there would be a cost. And that it wasn't going to be "the easiest deal in history" (see, that was a lie ) and there wasn't going to be £350 million/week freed up for the NHS (another lie ).

I told people in advance of the referendum about the difficulties that Greenland encountered when it left the EEC. Despite having a population of less than 60,000, yes 60 thousand (one thousand times smaller than the UK) and one industry (fishing), almost all of which is exported to the EU, no land border with the EU but with a special relationship with Denmark (so massively less complicated), it still took 3 years to sort out the details.

Its relationship is probably closer to that of an EFTA one, as it still gets EU Regional assistance (I think in return for fishing rights) and its citizens are still EU citizens (because they are an overseas territory of the Kingdom of Denmark)

But the UK Government did sweet FA preparation. One could blame Cameron who assumed Remain would win but May didn't need to trigger A50 when she did. She could have taken longer to prepare and consider the options and not go for the hardest Brexit possible, despite that not having been what was on the Referendum ballot, which anyway was only advisory

Except she did as her puppet masters were feart of the anti-money laundering regulations that come into force on 1 April 2019.

Yes, it is all about the money. And not ours

That graph of things leavers want to bring back is indeed depressing.

It can basically be summed up as "killing and violence", "things which are bad for the environment" and "nostalgia".

Fuck me, that graph is hideous... So many people looking backwards with their rose-tinted specs on.

FWIW I don't find Macron in the least attractive - but calling out the lies of the Leave campaign was the right thing to do. The truth hurts sometimes - suck it up, Theresa.

9% want pre decimal currency

I know it’s only 9% but really?

"It’s NOT the economy, stupid: Brexit as a story of personal values"
(LSE blog)

Yes all Brexit voters are racist knuckle draggers thick as shit and love the death penalty and want to go back to the empire. Seriously , this MN echo chamber is one reason why leave won, why we are leaving the EU - which will happen - and why it’s ssriosuly fucking with remainers heads. They profoundly misunderstood their fellow citizens. I cannot wait to leave the EU.

Why what do you think you’ll gain?

53% is a majority (of leavers, who wanted death penalty, in that survey). I seem to remember some important vote was won by that sort of margin not long back.

I'm just listening to old weasel words Corbyn on Andrew Marr. There is a real danger that he might be PM by Christmas. Is that what most of you want?

5yearplan all the graph shows is a correlation between certain beliefs and desires and the decision to vote Leave. It doesn't in any way call anyone names. Being offended by it is a bit of a waste of your time and energy - it's a simple graphical representation of the truth. I wonder why the truth is offensive to so many Leavers?

I wish the LibDems had gone into coalition with May in 2017 & we would have had a soft brexit &/or unlimited transition & lots more planning to avoid cliff edge. Plus DUP could not hold everyone hostage.

The (immature ridiculous) British public decided to never forgive LibDems for going into coalition with Tories 2010-2015, so what I want is impossible. Hey ho, nobody cares what I want.

I like May more than Corbyn but hard to see how Corbyn-led gov would be worse than May.

derxa I'd rather not have Corbyn for PM because he's just another Brexiter - but I can't see him as worse than the current mob. He's just as bad, no more. Whipping up Corbynophobia is just another Brexiteer tactic.

5yearplan don't get defensive then. Fight back with some actual facts. The more this goes on the thicker I think brexiters are as it goes. No facts, no reasoning, only parrotting the same old shite. You won. Now fucking sort it out if you think you're so righteous.

Whipping up Corbynophobia is just another Brexiteer tactic. But I'm not a Brexiteer. I wish the whole shit show had never happened.

There is a real danger that he might be PM by Christmas. Is that what most of you want?

I'd take Corbyn over a no-deal brexit any day, even though I wouldn't give the man the time of day.

I think if we get Corbyn we get remain or Norway, and either of those ensures that his room for manoeuvre is limited.

Plus, Corbyn is for 5 years (or more likely less, if he leads a minority government). Brexit is effectively forever.

mistigri what you said. I'm far less scared of Corbyn than I am of the current bunch running Westminster.

Do you really think he would. I wouldn't vote for any of the main 3 parties. Pretty sure Im not alone in being sick of all of them, would it be that cut and dried? I'd look at whoever was the most pro remaining of the rest but I'm aware that may not be a majority voting preference.

As a lifelong Labour voter I'd have difficulty knitting who to vote for too. Any party who promised to remain would get my vote. Failing that, a 2nd properly fucking thought out referendum. I'd even vote Tory if necessary (though not Boris, who is, yes, a liar).

Macron called a spade a spade. He was brave to break with diplomatic convention and he did what was needed to be done. Macron does not shrink from uncomfortable truths. His reforms in France are based on expert opinion and international benchmarking of best practice. This is painful but vital. He is a man of conviction.

Interesting survey, YeOldeTrout ... is there any indication of how the 2060 people questioned were sourced?

Mistigri - you are spot on and that's what I think that people don't always seem to remember - even if you don't like Corbyn, he can get in for 5 years tops unless reelected. Brexit is forever. What I don't get is that people who voted brexit cite a major reason being a protest at the current system. Labour are offering something different to the current system so at this point, I would personally rather take a chance on Labour if we end up having an election.

As for this thread - the OP has already acknowledged that there is no middle ground now so the thread is somewhat pointless apart from inflaming passions further. I will just point out though that it's not the EU's fault that we haven't gone down the EEA route - it's ours because we wouldn't accept freedom of movement and yet again, that's the point that keeps being missed - the EU have set their red lines all along - it's us that kept ignoring their position on issues such as freedom of movement. This 'outrage' that the EU have dared to stick to their fundamental positions is laughable.