To think we should wear black for mourning for as long as we want?

[recklessruby]

Just that really.
I have recently been reading about the practice of Victorian mourning and mourning clothes. They showed the world you were grieving and to be gentle with you.
These days I feel the mourning period is rushed and people expect you to feel better straight after the funeral drinks and tea.
I have been to funerals where people were wearing colours and it didn't feel right to me (unless it was the family s request).
So would you be ok with black clothes for some time after?
I feel it would show society you are grieving and don't want to snap out of it?
I want all black at my own funeral by the way.

CherryBlossom et al talking about who goes to a funeral, I do think there's a massive difference between British/English culture and other cultures on this issue. I had a Spanish colleague who would tell me that 'everybody' comes to a funeral and the idea of waiting to be invited is not really a thing.

I think it's kind of nice. It shows support for the bereaved. It's an act of community.

I wouldn't want colleagues at my funeral.

I'm often confused by the idea that gets touted on MN that you "can't" have a private funeral. If people aren't told where it is, then how would they find out?

going back to OP point, if we found a new cultural way to show we are in mourning, I'm still not sure how much difference it would make to anything really. Maybe if you were walking around town in a bit of a fog, someone might be less irritable if you bump into them and they see you are wearing a mourning band, but that's it.

as for busy lives in 2018, the working classes would have been working more hours probably, in the Victorian age.

Yes nobody would get invited or invite anyone to a funeral here. You do get people calling to make their apologies for not being able to attend (for various reasons) and funerals do tend to be well attended. (Of course there are smaller ones too) but unless a colleague was someone You we’re quite friendly with you wouldnt Be expected to attend their grandparents funeral.

See my x-post re grandparents. Funerals have a different cultural place, and workplaces will see it as important that at least one person attend a colleague's family funeral, or send a wreath. Obviously not everyone can go!

My second point still stands in other cultures, funeral times etc are publicly available, and people just show up, just in solidarity and to be a body in the crowd, and go away again. It would be seen as a huge imposition for the bereaved person/family to have to get in touch with individual people to say they would like to see them there. Another difference is that funerals there happen very quickly after the death, so there's no time for inviting people, and the whole thing is rather more not casual, exactly, but people are more used to funeral-going, and there's more word of mouth.

I don't always wear black to a funeral - often navy or grey instead. However I wish the idea of wearing a black armband hadn't gone out of fashion as it might sometimes be good to wear one as a mark of respect - for example when PC Keith Palmer died it would have been a way of showing respect both for him and for the police in general and a degree of contempt for terrorist behaviour.

Okay, yeah I was over exaggerating with colleagues at a grandparents funeral, that likely wouldn't happen in Ireland, but I was more getting at the point that you go to a funeral even if you don't know the dead person directly.

I get the impression colleagues wouldn't go to a parent's funeral in the UK either. And it's not like the whole department/office goes, it will just be one or two representatives, or your manager, or if you are close to a particular colleague they would probably go.

If people aren't told where it is, then how would they find out?

In my home country, deaths are announced immediately in the local paper, with funeral details, and may also be on local radio in rural areas.

@IfIwas ......was in Kerry a while back and listening to local radio where all funeral wakes within the area are broadcasted and announced....just in case anyone cared to pop in if they'd a spare hour or two. Fantastic! I love the way the Irish see this not as a thing to steer clear of but a real "come along" social engagement!
OP - it's good to hear you've found peace in your life. What you describe sounds like something that would surely indent anybody's life.

Do the posters who say wearing black for funerals is 'showing respect' mean they also think not wearing black is showing a lack of respect? I wore a black coat and hat to my dad's funeral but under the coat was a burgundy pleated skirt with a pink lace t-shirt. I wore it because he'd often said how much he liked the outfit so wearing it was a tribute to the dad I'd known and loved, not a signal to the judgemental about how much I was grieving or not.

We don't know how to deal with death in the UK and wearing black isn't going to change that - talking about death and funerals is the way to do that. I'll always be grateful to a colleague who, without making a fuss, encouraged me to talk about dad. Each time we needed to speak for work purposes, she asked me something about dad - his work, his hobbies.

Bardwell "In my home country, deaths are announced immediately in the local paper, with funeral details, and may also be on local radio in rural areas"

yes, I've been told this too.

but who announces it in the UK? The registrar doesn't do it do they? (I bloody hope not). Someone - the person running the funeral - puts the announcement in the paper.

if you don't want to do it, does the paper get the details from the local registrar? And surely they have only the details of the death, not the information about where the funeral is held?

I'm not convinced "inviting" is the right word for what I'm talking about.

Obviously there are announcements in the paper, usually with funeral details. I'm not saying there's a process of "oh we must invite X" but rather saying "actually, I need you to be there for me".

In my experience it is simply a case of family members inform others about the death and let them know funeral details, leaving it up to them to attend. It isn't as formal as an invitation.

Sorry for your loss and that today is such a hard day for you, OP.

In FIL's very rural Italian village, the older generation have strict rules about how long you wear black according to your relationship with the deceased; IIRC it's 2 years for a sibling, 5 for a parent, 10 for a child and forever for a husband (or wife?). It means that after a certain age, you only get to wear black forever more, As PP have said, it seems to affect or be observed much more by the women and makes them seem a bit other, like they're defined by their loss and grief, even if some were glad to see the back of an abusive husband or father.

just in case anyone cared to pop in if they'd a spare hour or two. Fantastic! I love the way the Irish see this not as a thing to steer clear of but a real "come along" social engagement!

like a bake sale!

I have to say I do enjoy the “social” aspect of a funeral. That sounds very wrong to say but you do get to see all the people, extended family, old friends etc that you don’t see anymore. It’s good to see everyone, it would be nice if it was under better circumstances obviously!

It’s interesting reading how funerals are in Ireland. It sounds similar to the ones I’ve experienced in NZ. People just turn up even if they’ve not met the deseased . Eg DP’s colleagues and boss came to both his parents funerals here. I’ve lived away from England for quite a long time so interesting to hear about how it is there. Also MANY speeches, unplanned, asking if anyone else would like to speak - and they do. Is that done in England ? Ireland?

@FoldyRoll funny how wearing black in up to 40 degrees heat is foisted upon women rather than men...

Locally the funeral director will announce the death and funeral arrangements in the paper (on FB these days!) unless the family request the don’t. Check out the Irish times

...My friend lost her dear father...

Your friend's father died, he wasn't 'lost'. That's sanitisation right there.

Your friend's father died, he wasn't 'lost'. That's sanitisation right there.

FFS. Let people talk about death as they wish and as they are best able to.

but who announces it in the UK? The registrar doesn't do it do they? (I bloody hope not). Someone - the person running the funeral - puts the announcement in the paper.

if you don't want to do it, does the paper get the details from the local registrar? And surely they have only the details of the death, not the information about where the funeral is held?

Absolutely no idea how that works in the UK, I'm afraid. Though one of the big differences, it seems to me, is that unless you're Muslim or Jewish or any of the faith groups who have a practice of burial within 24 hours, funerals here are often several weeks after a death, so there's less immediacy.

Announcements were in local papers in the UK and some by request get into nationals like the Guardian or Times.

Yes, our society does gloss over grieving. However, wearing black will make no difference unless you feel better having a visible reminder. Sadly society won't notice. The only good thing is that in Victorian times these things were enforced, largely on women, who had to withdraw from society. The issue of funerals and clothing is largely how the relatives view the funeral. A sad day of loss and saying goodbye, or as many people today prefer, a day of a celebration of a life. For most people it's a bit of both. Wear what you feel comfortable with

Hit enter before I could finish!!

The idea of someone enjoying the social aspect of a funeral makes me feel a bit ill. Another reason I hate funerals.

Ah, so I have to ask the funeral director to keep quiet?

Thanks.

And also, describing death as a loss is not "sanitation." It's incredibly accurate. You do lose someone - someone dies and they are gone forever, lost to you forever. It's THE ultimate loss.

So fed up of people policing other people's words.