next door becoming a playground for non school goers

[TryingToBeMorePositive]

I know I will be told to get my nose out of other people's business and what not but thought I will ask anyway and take the abuse.
I have some neighbours who are eastern european ( I am only pointing this out as non of them speak very good English so I have struggled to talk to them already). They originally moved in as one man, two women and young teenager boy before summer. He did not attend school. Now the new term has started he is still not attending school. Now 2 or 3 women have moved in or spend a long time round at the house and there are more younger boys in the house, I have seen a total of 3 together. There could be more. Now none of these children are going to school. They do not seem to be home educated as the majority of these people spend their time outside so we can see what they are up to, 4ft fences.
I have googled and not come up with an answer on whether I can report the children for not being in education. But I am also unsure whether I should just ignore the situation as it's non of my business. Feel free to tell me and then I can reassure myself to do so. But then do we have an obligation to report this? WWYD

You may have some valid points but so do others you’re attempting to silence.

Don't be ridiculous! I haven't attempted to silence anyone. Honestly if you live in a residential area and your children spend time outside you are being observed and to some extent judged by your neighbours. This happens whether or not you home educate. If I was concerned about my neighbours child I would 100% report them to SS. I'm sure it could be uncomfortable to be reported the authorities in that situation and you would feel judged but if nobody reports or only reports when they're 100% certain something is wrong (which is all but impossible) then thousands of children who could be rescued from abuse will be left to suffer. That's not a price I'm willing to accept. It would be a lot more intrusive from to somehow try to conduct my own investigation into whether ornate something is wrong.

If you're saying that when the authorities investigate they should do so sensitively and kindly and with an interpreter for people who need one then yes absolutely I agree.

I do wonder how many parents who send their child to failing schools would be happy to have the LA on their doorstep asking what the fuck they were playing at.

I’m sorry but “investigate a case of possible child neglect/trafficking yourself” is the worst possible advice. It’s dangerous....Of course having an SS or LEA visit isn’t nice, but if a simple visit with no further action taken causes you years of psychological problems that suggests serious underlying issues. That is not a normal response.

Don't be so deliberately obtuse, it's a shitty trait. Investigate means get to to know your neighbours. Talk to them (I know in this case there is a language barrier that makes that more difficult). Be friendly. As a PP said, there are various red flags that may or may not show up. If you get to know them a little you may see that your initial concerns were totally unjustified. Or you might feel more concerned which will make you feel more sure of reporting them. But you don't go reporting people just because their lifestyle is a bit different to the norm.

As for the second part of your post. Where in the name of fuck has anyone said that negative emotions equal psychological problems. Negative emotions are a normal part of life and serve a necessary evolutionary purpose. They are a natural and normal consequence of certain events. If you think that having negative emotions and psychological problems are one and the same then I'm afraid it's you who may have 'serious underlying issues.' Because that sure as shit is not a normal response.

If you report a good parent for a form of child neglect you will cause them, stress, fear, anger, paranoia, a feeling of unwelcomeness in their new neighbourhood, etc. Different people will feel all of the above to different degrees. Some people will experience them more strongly due to past history but even the most confident and assured person will experience negative emotions due to being judged as someone who is potentially harmful to their child. It would be really abnormal not to.

It doesn't mean that nobody should ever report anyone. Of course they should, as many children have been saved from awful situations due to concerned people sharing their concerns with the relevant authorities. But it does mean that people shouldn't be going off reporting other families based on half cocked theories.

I do wonder how many parents who send their child to failing schools would be happy to have the LA on their doorstep asking what the fuck they were playing at.

Totally irrelevant. Schools are inspected and if not at the expected standard they have to improve or be shut down. Likewise home education should be subject to scrutiny to ensure kids get a minimum level of education and are safe from harm.

“You may have some valid points but so do others you’re attempting to silence.

Don't be ridiculous!”

Yes. Just like that. Don’t call me ridiculous. And stop posting if you can’t have a dialogue with opposing views without trying to shut others down.

Sorry ektomarie but you are being ridiculous by suggesting that me disagreeing with you is me attempting to shut down your argument. It's actually very manipulative to make that claim.

There are some downright dangerous suggestions on this thread. By all means get to know your neighbours - if they're new to the country it might well be helpful to them but do not do so in order to snoop into their children's education - that is far more obtrusive than having a routine visit from the actual authorities. It would also put you in a potentially dangerous position if a crime was being committed.

Dylan Seabridge

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/08/report-on-death-of-boy-with-scurvy-raises-fears-for-home-schooled-children

Victoria Climbie

Another “ home educated” child who died of neglect.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1364789/The-people-who-failed-Victoria.html

The enquiry showed that there was a reluctance to report/investigate because of an unconscious racism which assumed foreignors in UK lived differently to those born there.

Khyra ishaq

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jul/27/khyra-ishaq-home-education-safeguards-call

@zzzzz

...and it was arguments like yours which led to people looking the other way for fear of being seen as interfering (racist) busybodies..

Wurzelburga you are absolutely right.
I had chosen to home educate my daughter this year rather than continue at school.

I had met up with other home educators and actually saw how neglected some of the children were. Some had not bathed and their body odour was very present, another child had hair so matted she had to cover with a head scarf.

Nobody batted an eyelid or said anything, I actually decided to put my daughter back into school and I'm currently awaiting to hear back. I could never be part of something that is ignorant to child neglect and just passes it off as being controversial because they're home educating.

What I will say though is that a couple of people on here have said the local authorities get frustrated when people up root and don't say anything, people are not obliged to inform the local authorities it's actually the schools who need to inform them that the child is no longer attending.

Secondly home education can take on many forms and doesn't need to follow the national curriculum, different people educate on different things.

There is a reddit forum to support adults whose home education experiences have been awful. Adults sometimes post about abuse, often about educational neglect and a lack of socialisation. It always amazes me on MN that some simply want to shout about how wonderful HE is, that they totally ignore or actively minimise those parents who are neglectful or abusive.
I have also seen HE suggested on MN to parents who are struggling with the issues of getting children to school on time. As if a parent who can not do this minimum amount of organisation, is a suitable candidate for HE. I do think some here who push HE in all circumstances are actively irresponsible.

The fact that many posters piled in on this thread and linked some boys playing in the garden with home education and then lots piled on to link abuse and home ed, shows the ignorant attitude of so many about home education. The lack of knowledge of types and ways of home ed and that you could do 1 hr per day and still cover more than a child covers in a 6 hr classroom day.

This is the reason home edders get defensive. They hear it again and again.

IfyouseenwhatIhaveseen, no way was that child actually home ed, you yourself mention this, yes people should raise concerns when they see them but you are linking a neglectful parent and a child not in education to home ed. This child of neglectful parents was the preyed on by a criminal. This is what home elders dislike. That link you are trying to make.
Many school children are also preyed on by criminals and this is missed despite them spending 6 hrs per day with adults who are looking out for their welfare.

By all means investigate and door knock but by making these knee jerk comparisons, you put up the backs of the people who if you engaged with them, they can usually tell you who home educates and what type and how often they see the child or not within their community.

The child that no one knows or sees do not usually belong to a home ed community and yes it should be concerning and looked into, maybe the parents are extremely isolationist or maybe they are not parents at all but criminals.

However if you want to identify then learn the difference and not penalise and marginalise a whole community. I. e likewise with Islamaphobia.

People start frothing at the mouth, they are quite a few posts that say on this thread, oh they played out all day or they were playing computer games, or fixing cars And so what.

There are many valid ways of learning and guess what they include plays and computer games. My friends son will fix anything, he does this in addition to maths and English etc but he's main thing is taking things apart and fixing them and seeing how they work. He has an engineers and inventors mind. He is not catered for, in any mainstream state school so a bespoke day of home ed is perfect for him.

But back to the op, please report as they may need support and or signposting or something sinister may be going on.

ifyouhaveseenwhatIseen I think you have no place on this thread, you should have come on and said yes please report and those in jobs like mine may investigate.

But you didn't you came on here and you linked a few times, home education and abuse, then you described a case of a child not in education being preyed on by a criminal because of neglectful parenting. Ridiculous and stupid from the viewpoint of privacy issues in your job and shows your lack of critical thinking.

The posts above show the agenda on this thread. Wow a home educated child but yet when the newspapers stopped frothing it was that she was more a child missing education. And how many cases are reported on child abuse, weekly, monthly and yearly where terrible abuse happened but was missed by teachers where that child spent 6 hours per day with professionals??

wurzelburga and others are showing their true agenda now. The op asked for advice and home ed was one scenario mentioned which actually was not that likely but all the ignorant have jumped in with their opinions.

Not zzzz directly above, in case I'm confusing anyone.

@ flirty

Mumsnet threads evolve. That is one of the things that makes it so interesting.

I replied directly to OP’s original question up thread. I advised her to report her concerns to the LEA.

As to my “true agenda” I do not oppose HE. I made that explicit in my first post.

I do support closer checks, having seen many young people deprived of their right to an education because:

a. society is failing to address the epidemic of MH issues - among the young people themselves and their carers.

b. league table focussed head teachers are manipulating vulnerable parents into removing their children form the register to home ed or face prosecution.
c. a small minority of people keep children off the radar to abuse and manipulate them for criminal ends.
d. a small group of extremist parents keep their children away from the school system because they do not want their extremist views threatened by exposure to outside opinion.

I do not understand why a small minority of home ed supporters deny that this is happening and accuse those who are concerned of pursuing some kind of right wing, statist, racist agenda.

I think the tide is turning though, as a direct result of the extreme cases I quoted above. A home ed register makes sense - particularly for the most vulnerable in our society.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-45174567