next door becoming a playground for non school goers

[TryingToBeMorePositive]

I know I will be told to get my nose out of other people's business and what not but thought I will ask anyway and take the abuse.
I have some neighbours who are eastern european ( I am only pointing this out as non of them speak very good English so I have struggled to talk to them already). They originally moved in as one man, two women and young teenager boy before summer. He did not attend school. Now the new term has started he is still not attending school. Now 2 or 3 women have moved in or spend a long time round at the house and there are more younger boys in the house, I have seen a total of 3 together. There could be more. Now none of these children are going to school. They do not seem to be home educated as the majority of these people spend their time outside so we can see what they are up to, 4ft fences.
I have googled and not come up with an answer on whether I can report the children for not being in education. But I am also unsure whether I should just ignore the situation as it's non of my business. Feel free to tell me and then I can reassure myself to do so. But then do we have an obligation to report this? WWYD

[conservativeuterus]

Good

[Feelings]

Who said I went to one? Now that does show how ignorant you are conservativeuterus I'm done talking to you.

[StacksOfBoxes]

Base camp, you speak perfect sense, and you speak it very eloquently.

[Basecamp65]

I was at a HE meet the other day and we were talking about the proposed changes to guidance and how some L.A.- not ours luckily- are totally over reacting in their requests for evidence of learning.

Every single person was detailing how they would fabricate this evidence as we simply could not produce it educating our children the way we very successfully currently do.

So - we are the excellent well motivated caring HE parents that you all say are not the problem but we are talking about fabricating the evidence to pass monitoring and how with very little coaching of our children we would get away with it. Then the inspectors would sod off and leave us to carry on exactly as we are very happily now

If us great HE parents can see how we could do this very easily then manipulative abusers would do it in a heartbeat and it would make it easier for them to get away with it for longer. Once a child had been seen and passed ok - then little attention would be given to any reports or anything. That family of 13 in the states that were found chained up had passed their annual HS inspection demanded by their state.

There is no workforce that could effectively monitor anyway. They would need to be experts at all levels of education including all forms of SEN. Fully understand all methods of alternative education and how that would relate to expected standards at all ages. Plus be able to subtly identify any red flags for abuse, trafficking, etc etc. These people do not exist and it would be difficult to ever find 2 or 3 in each local area. Therefore the people monitoring it would be similar to the people monitoring it now. Some are nice and try to be helpful but start talking about HE philosophy or SEN appropriate levels and they are so clearly out of their depth. They could be deceived and mislead so easily.

A highly skilled multi disciplinary team would be the only way to do this effectively and that would be enormously expensive and may never actually be needed in a given area- reports of HE children to SS is far higher than schooled children but SS investigations shows actual abuse rates are lower than the mainstream population. Looking at rates of abuse and rates of HE - a typical L.A. would see a case a decade and these would mostly be picked up in traditional ways , family/neighbour reporting or GP/hospital. Therefore an incredibly expensive team would be largely a waste of money.

As loving HE parents the idea of any monitoring is extremely concerning due to the level of stress and anxiety this will cause the children. Think of SATS but on every aspect of your child life and done annually. Do you really think this could ever give an indication of what a child's life is like?

Annual monitoring would be utterly pointless and cause substantially more harm and distress to children than it could ever prevent in 100 years and a system that could potentially work for safeguarding would require so much resource to be diverted to it from already stretched services that it would put substantially more vulnerable children at risk due to cuts elsewhere.

Yes a handful of HE children have slipped through the safeguarding net over the years but so have thousands and thousands who have attended school the whole time and even had substantial SS involvement - their abuse was missed so how is 10 minutes a year is going to find it out. A child can easily be overlooked repeatedly in a class of 30 and I'm sorry but many children do not have a relationship with a teacher where they could disclose.

As the OP clearly shows HE children are far from invisible - in fact they stick out like a sore thumb.

The idea of a register and monitoring of HE seems like a no brainer but when you see how it fails to work in other countries and really think it through- you realise it is a pointless exercise and will cause far more harm than good.

What is needed desperately though - and the lack of it is what causing the problem - is more clear guidance on how agencies should work together and who is responsible for what when genuine safeguarding issues are raised and a child is HE. All the cases mentioned here and in virtually all known cases agencies have been aware of concerns about the HE children but mistakes in communication have been made. Spotting HE safeguarding concerns is not the issue- in fact statistacally they are far more likely to be referred. It is working with the families when a major element of most safeguarding plans (school) is missing that is the problem

[leasedaudi]

So the Family Network (previously known as Networking Mummies) are looking for a new leader in Cheltenham..

[silvercuckoo]

That's interesting about the online Polish curriculum, I didn't know, and it explains a lot about some children I meet in the park.
Young families do move around a lot, as opportunities back home tend to be limited. Not only because of work (albeit it is a major factor), also for life experiences. Some have an intention to settle permanently, but many more don't. Some leave kids back home with grandparents when working abroad, some, for various personal reasons, bring them along.
A home-based playgroup my kids attended was organised by a lady who held a "Teacher of the Year" national award back home. Working as a cleaner in in the UK, but also running this group absolutely voluntarily - we only bought the books/materials.

[conservativeuterus]

So you went to one home ed meeting and you have based your whole opinion of home ed on some kids being dirty with matted hair. I don't think its me that needs to grow up.

[conservativeuterus]

I am sorry you feel I am ignorant Feelings but it makes no difference to my point of view. I think people that want more monitoring are ignorant. But there you go.

[SilverLining10]

Op as you can see the majority of sensible posters have advised to report as it's better to err on the side of caution. The reality is that this set up sounds very strange. More so as two other women arrived there with children.

[Cauliflowersqueeze]

Isn’t there some saying that if you hear hooves expect horses rather than zebras?
Yes there’s a microscopic chance it could be a family who has decided to home educate their children under cover of darkness. But it’s not likely is it.

[Cauliflowersqueeze]

Yes OP you did the right thing.

[StacksOfBoxes]

Yes, when we were home educating, the "why are you not in school? " did grow tedious.

Silver cuckoo, I'm sorry your neighbour treats you like that. That's interesting about the online Polish curriculum, I didn't know, and it explains a lot about some children I meet in the park.

[silvercuckoo]

I am Eastern European and I am reported by my neighbour every time "suspicious characters" like my parents or friends come over to visit and stay for a couple of days. Just to check that nothing dodgy is going on, surely no one should mind that. So feel free to report to police, social services, RSPCA, the more the merrier.

Many Eastern European kids are on a combination of home and community education, if the family plans to earn money for a year or two and return. It does not make sense for older kids to go to a local British school as 1) they will struggle with English with all the consequences like bullying ) the curriculum in British state schools is significantly softer, and kids will struggle to catch up on return.

There are plenty of online schools following, for example, Polish school curriculum. It is quite common for EE families to pool housing and childcare / education resources this way.

[DinahMorris]

A simple register of HE would make questions like the OPs much easier - there would never be a worry about causing undue stress because all genuine HE children would be on a list. So the LEA could check the list and if the children were HE there's no worry. If they aren't on the list it needs to be checked out. So EVERYONE would feel less worried about 'reporting' so concerns would be raised more often. Unjustified ones wouldn't cause any additional stress and justified concerns would rightfully be followed up. I don't understand the angst about it tbh.

I get the "but what would yearly checks do?!" argument but I think it's better than nothing. 10 minutes alone with an adult to ask for help if needed might not save many children, but it might save some. We only need to read a few of the myriad of adult survivors testimonies to understand that isolation was a big part of the problem. All children (HE or IE) should be given the opportunity to ask for help, and their concerns should be taken seriously.

[Feelings]

Oh grow up conservativeuterus you are so ignorant.

The health visitors and midwifes are there to ensure that you're looking after your child, they're not there 24/7 no! But they're there to make sure you can look after that child. My midwife very explicitly told me that she checks every parents ability and asks them where they would place themselves in terms of ability, universal is the band for parents who are able to look after their children and are not involved in drugs/police/neglect or abuse.

You know what is offensive, listening to you minimise the need for extra monitoring, especially when I as a child needed that the most. Oh and in case you missed my last post, I mentioned that I went to a home ed meeting recently and several kids hadn't washed, one had hair so matted they had to wear a head scarf. So yeah, it does exist, more than you realise.

You are so ignorant it's unreal.

[ivykaty44]

Zzzz I’m not sure if you’re being odd or what - they didn’t home school them for obvious reasons

[StacksOfBoxes]

The possibly undocumented migrants the OP mentioned at the start of this thread probably wouldn't be on a register anyway.

The chances are, if there was a register, and somebody started cross- referencing home education with low income, reports of DV, long-term medical needs etc. , we would have had social services round even before the malicious report - and I've got mixed feelings about that. Most social workers I've met have been lovely, but there was just one very young and recently qualified sw who knew a lot less about child development than I do, and caused my already traumatised children a great deal of harm.

Still, she was just one nightmare queen of arrogant incompetence among a generally empathetic and professional bunch, and I'd still take the risk of a few like that than support the turn-a-blind-eye and don't get involved approach that can leave so many kids at risk.

[ivykaty44]

If you have concerns then it should be reported to the county council

Fred and Rosemary had many people coming and going, took the children out of school - but no one really took any notice

I’m not saying it’s on that level

But if things don’t look right, often there not and if county council social services keep being informed then at least they can try to look into it

[conservativeuterus]

I had my child at home as well. The midwives left an hour after the birth. Maybe they should have moved in, in case I proved myself to be an inept fuckwit that needs constant monitoring.

The premise that all parents are incapable idiots that need constant monitoring and control is offensive, but indicative of a nanny state, which apparently some are pleased to welcome with open arms. Takes away that pesky personal responsibility that is so exhausting.

Yes, some people will abuse children. The majority of people do not.

[smartiecake]

I haven't rtft but I work for a Midlands local authority that has huge numbers of overseas families arriving. They come to the council house to ask about schools and are usually told that all the schools are full and there are no places. There are lots of kids not in school where I work due to this issue.

[conservativeuterus]

Feelings we saw the health visitor once or twice after my daughter was born and that was it. Then again when she was 2 for that check. Ultimately we were left to our own devices, as it should be. Some people, as evidenced by this thread obviously are in favour of more monitoring. I am not.