next door becoming a playground for non school goers

[TryingToBeMorePositive]

I know I will be told to get my nose out of other people's business and what not but thought I will ask anyway and take the abuse.
I have some neighbours who are eastern european ( I am only pointing this out as non of them speak very good English so I have struggled to talk to them already). They originally moved in as one man, two women and young teenager boy before summer. He did not attend school. Now the new term has started he is still not attending school. Now 2 or 3 women have moved in or spend a long time round at the house and there are more younger boys in the house, I have seen a total of 3 together. There could be more. Now none of these children are going to school. They do not seem to be home educated as the majority of these people spend their time outside so we can see what they are up to, 4ft fences.
I have googled and not come up with an answer on whether I can report the children for not being in education. But I am also unsure whether I should just ignore the situation as it's non of my business. Feel free to tell me and then I can reassure myself to do so. But then do we have an obligation to report this? WWYD

well done op for acting on your concerns

Thank you for posting ifyoudseen

Zzzzz you sound really defensive.

In scotland the law dictates education in a necessary school is not and the only thing you must teach by law is religious instruction well christianity it states . Obviously if not of that religion then your own .My son with Asd was educated at home because of education failures they shut our local special needs school this is the only reason i know this .

Zzzzzz this is not about you.

It is entirely appropriate and professional for an expert to post this:

“I work on a modern slavery team as an investigator. So far this month we have picked up 15 Eastern Europeans being held (yes locked in) to a shipping container. 4 kids 'minding' Cannabis farms. 11 kids running county lines for sexual favours and trainers. We nicked the county lines gang leader ENTIRELY due to a so called 'nosey neighbour' concerned that one of these kids wasn't in school. From there it unravelled. She was 12. This is the consequence, in the real world of 'report what' ? Sorry, your right to not be questioned about your educational choices does not over ride a duty to report suspicious /unusual behaviour to relevant authorities. Kids home all day is one of our triggers.”

12 year olds’ safety matter more than your concerns. Some issues really matter more than other issues.

I would be quite happy for someone to phone the LEA about us if they were concerned. We can't say that we are able to watch out for each other and "monitor" ourselves effectively if we shoot down attempts to help children who are being mistreated under the rather convenient (for abusers) umbrella of home educating. I know that it is rare, but it will be happening and letting someone know means that a child becomes visible - not a bad thing!

@ifyoudseenwhatihave thank you for posting - it helps me (and others I'm sure) understand the potential dangers to children that we may - from our privileged perspective - not realise are there. I will be keeping a close eye on any situations that raise red flags in future.

@zzzzz you sound very defensive, which is your right, but you also sound very dismissive 'I don't neglect / abuse my kids so it's offensive to suggest that others who have kids at home might'. Do you honestly not believe that abuse of the system and of children goes on?

Zzzz

Because people who work with the most damagedand vulnerable should be encouraged to give juiced details on social media? 

Social media has a great part to play in educating the general public to the very real horrors going on out there. Especially people like yourself, to whom this type of activity doesn't appear real. It is even more important to educate the public about what they can do to help eradicate these appalling crimes. Reporting unusual, or activity that makes you uneasy for whatever reason especially when it relates to children, is absolutely, without question, the right thing to do.

I would rather knock on a 1000 doors and find a 1000 happy, nourished, cared for children who's parents or careers can throw me a tirade of abuse for 'being reported' than miss one that's not. It's as simple as that.

As for being 'encouraged'.... I've been here 9 yrs and your ridiculous 'leave Home educators alone' nonsense is the first time I have felt compelled to say anything. Because it's actively dangerous advice. Looking the other way costs lives.

I'm off now. I'm very uneasy about discussing this stuff and don't need anyone being able to link me back to real life which the eagle eyed can occasionally do from writing style.

Well done OP. You may have saved a life.

To start with a register in the same way that child minders have would hold the name of the ACTUAL parents. They could be called and investigations would not be held up whilst basic facts established.

A regular interaction with authorities. Say 6 monthly. (Personally I'd prefer 3 monthly but most Home Ed's have a dislike of authority so a compromise required).

Some kind of documented outline of the type of education being provided. By topic for example but 'something' that has to be completed. Because this is NOT about those who genuinely Home educate. ! All those people can easily provide OR would have no problem providing the above.

Some kind of unannounced 'spot check'. Criminals who exploit children are highly clever, manipulative individuals who will go to extraordinary lengths to cover their tracks. If they know someone is 'coming' they will set it up to look the part. Genuine Home Educators do not need to do this.

This is about a child's right to be safe and receive an education. Not an adults right to educate at home.
There are many thousands of amazing home educators in this country without provide a unique (and often) superior education for their children , to that , that can be obtained in the public/private sector. There are also many many abusers, manipulators , criminals, and traffickers who use this loop hole to get away with terrible crimes. I have seen this with my own eyes. On numerous occasions.

There are also a whole pile of feckless, lazy neglectful parents who can't be arsed to take their kids to school, who are increasingly using 'Home ed' as their default line when the welfare officer gets too close.

I really am name changing now.

I do get your concerns, There is a family of Roma beside me their DC are well over 4 and still no school, they have been here years and spend days fixing old cars so there is definitely no home schooling going on.

How does it work? well at the very simplest level the OP calls the authorities and they check the register and say A, B & C are being HE. Do you have any other concerns? The OP can then say no, or I'm worried they aren't getting an education or say actually it looks like there are 4 kids there not three and then the authorities can follow up if they think it necessary.

I really don't get why so many HE parents are so totally against any form of checks. If you are doing the right thing by your kids (and many HE families are) what do you have to fear?

I think a webchat on modern slavery would be v. helpful. Maybe your team could contact MNHQ in its official capacity? @ifyouhadseenwhatihave

....and in that way you wouldn’t have to worry personally about overstepping the mark.

My close friend (who is a wonderful, responsible mother) was once reported to SS by her GP. She had just moved to a new area and within the space of a week had to take both of her children to the GP for accidents at home in which they'd been injured. GP questioned her, was concerned and reported her. SS visited saw no problem, did a follow up visit later, again saw no problem and the case was closed. While my friend was embarrassed no harm was done and she understood totally why the GP reported. I'd much rather have a temporary intrusion into my life than know that cases in which children are genuinely being abused aren't being investigated. I think it's incredibly selfish to think otherwise.

Permanently, that is completely different than home schooling your children in the privacy of your own home and finding out your neighbours watch and observe you while you’re in your own home and have reported you. That is an incredibly intrusive feeling and I can absolutely empathise with why some people wouldn’t want to report their neighbours. Add to that lack of language and unable to explain yourself clearly to authorities that do come knocking - maybe not even realising your legal rights in this country? Well, I for one can understand how your new home in a new country could turn into a hostile, unwelcoming place with just one phone call.

You may have some valid points but so do others you’re attempting to silence.

Report it if you want but I’m not sure how they can not appear to be being home educated? Home education doesn’t have to follow the school curriculum or take place during school hours/be the same length as a school day.

I home educated last year my DS last year. I doubt we would have looked to an outsider like he was being taught as he spent huge amounts of time outside playing and we often had other HE families over for the day and the kids just played. But he does lots of real world learning, which hasn't changed one bit now that he's in (a play based) school.

He reads several years above his age group and I make sure that there are books that correspond with the national curriculum on our bookshelves. So that I can pick a book for a bedtime story that focuses on a certain sound he is unsure of, eg 'ph' for ffffff. Or one that focuses on your/you're or there/their/they're. We play highly complicated versions of board games using multiple coloured dice with rules about adding/subtracting/multiplying certain colours. We make movies using his toys for stop motion animation which involves a lot of maths, especially when creating and adding sound files. I'm unfortunately monolingual but make an effort to add German/Spanish words into our conversation or learn songs/watch favourite tv shows in those languages so that he can at least get used to the sounds/develop an interest. I'm a history nerd, so I'm always teaching him history through play, stories, discussions. And he loves geography/science so practical learning and experimentation are a huge part of our days. But if you were watching from nextdoor you would have almost certainly assumed we were not home educating because everything was play based.

If I was reported to the authorities I'd have been very upset and there is no doubt that it would cause me very real stress and paranoia about how my life was being judged and how my neighbours viewed me. If the OP's neighbours are good home-educators it's not as simple as an EWO showing up and being shown that all is well and everyone continuing on merrily with their lives. Anyone, from any walk of life, who says that being reported for possibly neglecting their kids would have no negative effect on them is bullshitting. It doesn't matter if it was just one meeting that proved you are a good parent, it would cause a whole range of negative emotions that would be incredibly stressful for the initial few weeks and then likely resurface in small ways for many years to come.

That doesn't mean that the OP shouldn't have reported her concerns. It doesn't mean that the children don't need help. It doesn't mean that the stress and discomfort of a number of parents outweigh the needs of 1 child to gain access to outside help. But lets not pretend that reporting an innocent person won't have a negative consequence for them. If you have real concerns about a child's welfare, the best thing to do is probably to investigate yourself as far as you can, while keeping an open mind to different techniques. And if you still don't feel reassured, report your concerns. But do be aware that you could be upsetting someone who has done nothing other than make decisions in the best interests of their child, that are a bit outside of the norm.

as so many have said, report. Every child has a right to an education - that education does not need to be at school, but if these parents are really home educating they won't mind being checked.

the MN playground 'don't sneak' attitude has a lot to answer for - and sadly it isn't limited to MN. Grow up.