To think our parents were all negligent?

[hooveringhamabeads]

(Lighthearted)

By today’s standards at least?

Inspired by some of the threads I’ve read this week, about 7 year olds playing out alone, or a baby being left for 5 mins while the Mum goes to the shop, I’ve been thinking about my own childhood and some of the (perfectly normal for then) stuff that happened. For context, I was born in the early 80s.

As babies, car seats weren’t a thing, so we’d be put in the carrycot on the back seat. My DM says that if we were asleep when we got to town, she’d leave us in the car, lock it and go and do her shopping.

We had a Subaru van with no seats in the back, and my brother and I would sit in the back, each on a wheel arch, and we’d love it because we’d get flung around the back as we were travelling along, which we found hilarious.

If we were on holiday at Butlins my parents would use the ‘baby listening service’ while they went out of an evening, which consisted of one person patrolling the massive site and putting their ear to the relevant doors to see if anyone was crying. What they did if there was I have no idea as no one had mobiles then.

My friend who’s DCs are now 24 and 28 used to leave her kids alone when holidaying abroad when they went out at night. But they’d leave a shoe in the door so that the kids weren’t shut in if there was a fire .

It’s a miracle we all survived

Also we were allowed to drink Smirnoff Ice and Barcadi Breezers from age 11/12 as if they were fizzy pop as a treat with tea! But my family may be alcos

I was a baby before car seat use was law, I was put in my bassinet in the boot of my aunties Honda Civic, with the backseats down. She strapped it in with leather belts. When I got older, sitting age she put reins on me and fed a seatbelt through them so I couldn’t fall. There was also a rather large golden retriever cross who rode in the back with me
Mum & Dads car arrangements were less fun, they had an actual car seat. Though weren’t bothered by the bassinet/reins/dog arrangement when I went out with aunt and grandma.

And I remember dad driving us all home from the maternity hospital with my baby sister in 1990. No car seat. Dad & granny in the front, mum, baby sis & me in the back. Mum holding my sister the whole way home (hours drive) and I do recall her flipping off other drivers and saying “watch it, we’ve got a baby in the car”, she would deny that last bit now.

We were left in the car a bit from when I was about 8/9, if Mum and dad went into the bank or supermarket. Not every time. We didn’t care. Similar to PPs, school holidays would be out after breakfast and not home until the streetlights came on, though unlike my friends mums my mum required me to call to tell her where I was in terms of which adult was nearest - ie “we’re going to Julie’s house” etc

And I used to babysit sister & baby brother at home from age 11ish.

I think the term "Benign Neglect" perfectly describes the type of parenting common in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, but of course then it was just normal, not bad parenting at all. It was wonderful to have the freedom to roam and not be micro-managed and you learned to be independant and also to have to get on with others as there were usually no grownups around to referee disagreements.
My mother, soon after she had me, went shopping for some groceries, and when she got home later realised she was missing something - ME. She rushed back to the grocer shop and there I was, still fast asleep in my pram, safe and sound . She didn't forget me again though, she gave herself a real fright.

I remember my dad and his friends leaving us alone at night when we did a trip to butlins.
Don't think they paid for any listening service either!

I used to go to a childminders as a kid - early90s and she also worked nights at a residential home..... so she used to sleep during the day.... while "minding" us.....

It's all relevant to the times and awareness.
I was born in the 50s. My sister aged eight used to take me to the park in my pram and look after me if my mum popped to the shops. At fifteen I used to take my nephew on the train from up north to the Midlands to visit another sister.
My sisters looked after me and my little brother when my mum got a part time job.
My brother and I used to walk to the cinema five miles away, through a big park when I was nine or ten and he was 8.
I was cooking meals for the family and cleaning the house at age 13.
I didn't feel neglected, it was just normal.

Born in 77 and my parents took me to Majorca aged 2. We stayed in a hotel. They said they put me to bed and met another couple also with a similar aged child. Mum said they would take it in turns with the other couple to check on us..... She says every 15 minutes, one of them would go up to the room and check both kids. I find that hard to believe!

I see the worst thing can happen to a child and parent today is some nosy neighbour or a random do-gooder calling SS.

I think "good parenting skills" in the old days were learnt from mistakes, unfortunately. My dad once left me in the car (aged about 5) whilst he nipped somewhere. I managed to pull the handbrake off and was rolling down a slight hill. Luckily there were no cars in front and dad returned in time to jump in and yank the handbrake on. He never left me in the car again until in my teens!! DH was from a large family and he and siblings were unsupervised outside all day (their mum indoors). His older brother laid a homemade trap in a hole in the garden, DH fell into it and still has the scars today. He and siblings were always supervised after that!! Also, a tragic one. I was 19 and worked in the evenings with a stupid woman who used to leave her two dc in bed. She actually gave them calpol (or the equivalent in those days) to make them sleep. Unbelievable and we all used to continuously tell her. There was a fire one night and both dc died. This was in the seventies and shamefully not one of us had thought to report her, it just wasn't done in those days. It was classed as a "tragic accident" not even negligence!!

Child of 70s, born in Eastern Europe
No car seat?! it was a luxury to have a bicycle, the cars were a rarity we walked A LOT
At 6 I started school. My mum came with me on the first day, it was a good 30 min walk, next day "off you go child, you know the way now!"
We were always playing on the street, going up the hills, going swimming in the lake...half of the day our parents hadn't have a clue where we were. We came home when we were hungry
At 9-10 I was shooting guns on a military range up the hill, behind the estate I was living in. Under close supervision of military people, but still
We all had bows and arrows , catapults with stones, small catapults with wire "ammunition", wooden knives and swords (made by us) - it was a permanent war between us - cowboys & Indians was the favourite
Winters with loads of snow! Sleighs coming down the hill! because of the high speed we weren't always able to stop at the base of the slope, so you might as well end up in the middle of the main road. It was thrilling and exciting
We were so happy

I've noticed that the children of Romanian and other migrants in a town near where I live seem to have the sort of freedom we did in the 70's and 80's. I often see them out playing in the streets, riding their bikes about at dusk etc

I'm a child of the 80s. I remember age 8 or so going on holiday and being put on the back of a motorbike and going for a ride with a family friend, no helmet. We also ate McDonald's regularly because it was cheap. My mum was also concerned that I was so small so she used to feed me up on cookies, cakes and sweets, as much as I wanted. My weight has always been average, but I find it unbelievable hard to lose weight when I want to and I blame her for all the fat stores I have now!

I Disagree slightly. I had DS1 in '77 and he had a carry cot with straps then a car seat in the 70/80's.
We never left him to go shopping. DS2 born 1980 and we had a sling for him when shopping and DS1walking everywhere.
DS3 born '85 had baby car seat. DS1 &2 then on booster.
We never left them. When we could afford holidays we never went out at night. We mostly camped so sat out and socialised with others in the evening.
In 77 new neighbour used to leave her new born and go for walk with OH for about two hours. When I was sure I snitched to HV because I worried about their baby. I couldn't understand why they didn't take her with them. I used to push my pram for long walk every day and enjoyed meeting people wanting to see DS. He made quite a lot for his money box to as it was tradition to put a silver coin in their hand. None of my new friends left their babies other than the local shop which had a huge window you could see them.
One friend with baby brain left her new born outside and Elsie in the shop kept an eye on him till she saw me and I wheeled him up home. She didn't live it down for a while. Everyone kept an eye on the village kids though as everyone knew them. It was a small place and idyllic to grow up there. I cried with the kids when we had to leave to support MIL but where I live now is nearly as good just not by the sea.

Am thinking about what’s changed and why we parent differently. Why are we afraid to give our kids the freedom we had? I suppose thinking about my own self, my worries would be:

1. that they’d get run over. To be fair roads are hell of a lot busier now than they used to be, but it doesn’t take much to train a child how to safely cross a road.

2. that someone will ‘interfere’ with them. There is a danger of that but if anything I’d say the risk is smaller...30 years ago there wasn’t the level of public outrage/vigilante action towards peadophiles that may act as a deterrent. And is it worth taking away a child’s freedom for their entire childhood on the basis of this tiny risk? Especially as most children who are sexually abused suffer at the hands of a family member rather than a stranger.

3. that they’ll hurt themselves...well yes they might but the chances of it being serious are small, cuts and grazes and even broken bones mend, and the fun they were having up until that point may well outweigh the injury sustained.

4. what other people think - I think this massively influences how we parent, and then things become social norms and we are too afraid to deviate from them because of others reactions. The social construct of childhood has changed massively in my lifetime.

My mum told me she once left me asleep on the sofa aged 3 while she went to see her friend a few doors away for a coffee.
A man knocked at my door which woke me up, I opened the door, he asked where my mum was so he took me by the hand and went and knocked on the house where my mum was!!
That could have ended very differently!

I was born in 77 and apart from the no seatbelts thing, I can't relate to much of this.

There's no way my mum would have left a baby locked in the car asleep while she went to do the shopping.

Likewise the listening service.

I was never allowed to play where she couldn't see or call me in.

I was allowed to go to the shop when I was about 9/10, which was a 10/15 minute round trip, but only if I was with siblings or friends.

I didn't ever think I was being unfairly treated as it was the same for friends.

My mum and Dad can never understand the sleep deprivation part. With me and my siblings they gave us our last bottle, put us in our cot downstairs and shut the door in case we cried and woke them. They went to bed upstairs and had a blissful 8 hours sleep

70s child- no seat belts in rear of car,or shoogled while bounced about in the boot of an estate car..moved to that england for a while in the 80s.was tiny little idylic picturesque village back then(is nothing like it now-) our house was on one of the two newbuild streets-i think we spent at least 2 yrs pretty much constantly playing on building site-the second the workies knocked off shift.jumping from top floor window spaces into sand..climbing scaffold, picking putty back out windows,actually terrifying to realise now-but was tremendous at the time....times have changed for sure,considering things as an adult shifts alot too tho.

I agree with the happy medium between over protection and pure negligence. I must admit I do a massive eye roll when I read on here about parents not leaving their secondary school children home alone in the holidays etc.

I was born in 1980 and my mum went back to work when I was 7. From that moment on I was looked after by my brother (aged 10) for a couple of hours after school and during school holidays. My dad used to pop home at lunchtime and check on us and obviously we had trusted neighbours. We were absolutely fine and I have brilliant memories of long summer holidays spent with our friends.

I was born mid 70s. Apparently I had a car seat when I grew big enough to sit up (carrycot on back seat till then). My dad said he had to drill into the car seats and use screws to fix it. Certainly by reception age I didn't have a car seat and although my parents car had seatbelts none of my friends did and I quite enjoyed going in someone else's car!
As a baby I went in my own room from day 1 and slept on my tummy. My parents thought I was super neurotic that ds was still sleeping in our room " for so long" and he was moved out at 5 months which is obviously before the guidelines say.
There was a big gang of kids roaming the streets and fields/woods behind our house with ages ranging from 3ish to 12ish. Big ones looked after the little ones and we were in and out of each other's houses and off into the wood most of the day. The worst thing that happened to me was falling off a wall and cutting my leg badly. But we frequently sustained minor injuries, nettle stings etc. There were flashers occasionally also. One of my friends was badly beaten up by some bigger kids but I wasn't there for that.
I had sips of alcohol from probably age 3-4 and used to tell everyone how much I loved creme du menthe!
For parties, everyone dumped and ran from age 3 whether they knew the parents or not!
It was certainly different from how things are now! I kind of regret that ds won't have as much freedom.

I think it depends on the family.

I certainly don’t recognise much from Hoovering’s OP and I was born in the seventies.

My parents would never have left us alone in the car as babies.

They always paid for back seat belts as an option. They always wore belts themselves even before it was the law.

We had car seats and then boosters until we were tall enough to be held properly by the belt.

We weren’t ever left alone while they went out or on holidays.

As for do I parent my child differently these day? . It possibly depends where you live but my kids are allowed to play out in the street.

They are allowed to walk to the local park/Woods/playing fields as long as they are back by a specified time and let us know where they are going and who with. (And no they don’t have phones)

Born mid-seventies. I don't recognise any of this, we even had secure carry cots and car seats although I don't think they'd have passed any stringent safety tests. We weren't allowed to play out unsupervised until we were about 10 (on bikes mostly, and ALWAYS saying where we were going to be) , and the time when I went to a friend's house without telling my parents resulted in my dad racing around in his car looking for me whilst my mum called the police .

My parents were older though (my mum was livid when 'geriatric primagravida' was written in her notes) so maybe that bit more cautious than other parents? Their attitude didn't seem overprotective to me at the time though, and no one else mentioned it so it can't have been that odd.

Had both of my DCs in the 80s. I followed all of the up to date advice religiously: no weaning until 4 months, sterilising until 12 months and my biggest regret, putting them both in their own bedrooms straight from the hospital. How on earth could I have thought that was acceptable? I think it was to avoid being tempted to co-sleep, which was a big no at that time. I was by their cots at the first snuffle, but even so, it was so ridiculous. HV checked where they would sleep before the birth.
I was terrified they wouldn't let me keep them if I went against the advice.

We had no thermometer, no listening devices, no MN or internet for advice. I'm actually horrified at the risks for new babies back then.

We went to butlins regularly and my parents would not use the listening service.
But I think kids today are less resilient and that worries me for the future.

@hooveringhamabeads

Great question, I was just wondering the same myself. I had a 'free range childhood' - living in a small village where everyone knew everyone in the late 80's / early 90's meant from about 6 yrs old we could go out in the morning and be left to our own devices until lunch / dinner time. We used to make dens in the woods, walk to the railway bridge and lean over to wave at trains, walk through the fields to go and paddle in the river etc... Neither I or any of my friends get badly injured during this childhood, but that is my big fear for my child. He's only 4 at the moment, but soon he'll be of an age where he will want more independence, and thinking of him doing the things I did as a kid makes me very anxious, even though I loved it and nothing bad happened to me as a kid out and about. Don't want him to be over protected but I'm an anxious person as it is, so don't want to spend my his childhood constantly anxious.

It can go the other way though. I live in a gated compound, with 40 or so houses all directly on the road through the compound. There are no pavements or grassy areas where children can play safely, and cars don't always drive slowly despite repeated appeals to. Nevertheless, several parents let young kids (some 3 or 4 yrs old) run around with no parental supervision on the road - some are cycling fast and cut in front of cars when trying to cross the road. There are several blind spots to on the road where you don't see someone until they are right in front of you. I think it's insane that parents send preschool kids out to essentially play in the road when everyone complains about the speed of cars driving on it. It's surely only a matter of time before there's an accident. There's free range parenting and then there is sheer idiocy.

I walked to school on my own aged 5 (only 5 minutes away but still...)
I will spend some weekends alone aged 12-13, as my parents will go to our house in the countryside but I didn't want to go with them, so I will stay in the city alone, I loved it!

Nowadays: somebody I know from abroad is coming with her 2 kids (13 and 8 years old) to the UK for a year and she is bringing a "nanny" with them to take them to school and pick them up . I didn't even know nannies would look after teenagers. A bit too much!