To be slightly fed up of white people doing this

[TacoLover]

Every time there is a thread discussing racism, there will be a mention of white privilege. Cue a flurry of hurt posters writing essays about how stupid the idea of white privilege is and how it doesn't exist, because their lives are so hard and they grew up on a few pieces of bread and a Red Bull

This really gets on my tits because after seeing this shit time and time again, THIS ISN'T WHAT WHITE PRIVILEGE MEANS. It doesn't mean your life isn't hard, it doesn't mean you don't face barriers in your life. What it does mean is the barriers in your life will never or hardly ever be a result of the colour of your skin. It doesn't mean you live in a mansion because you're white.

Just needed to get that out,sorry. I'm sure my only replies will be white people telling me how racist I am for only targeting them(Even though this is something that only white people do)

You want unfairness? There you go.

Except how do you know it's unfairness, Teacher22? You are clearly an engaged, articulate parent, and your username indicates you are a teacher. Someone from a sink school with no help at home at all might be just as bright as your DD, but their lower grades are a reflection of the circumstances in which they took their exams.

It might be unfair, it might not. But there is a strong correlation between input and output when it comes to education, so it may indeed have been a reasonable adjustment to level the playing field, and not unfair at all.

A little off-topic but I found @Cornettoninja's post quite useful.

White privilege is a great concept which is demonstrably true in all of the ways PPs have described, from CVs to judicial treatment and everything in between.

But we really need to keep in mind that it's a relatively new way of thinking about society, and it's not one that everybody has been able to access yet. The concept of liberation, which is new-wave and different to older ideas about equality, isn't widely understood.

The reality is that many white people outside of certain environments (universities, urbane metropolitan circles, Internet forums) couldn't define white privilege if asked. This is for complicated reasons of class, educational inequality, access to resources, and more. That's why we see some of the responses we do from some white people. Not everybody is throwing their toys out of the pram and clinging on to the last vestiges of white power.

So while I agree that it's definitely a thing, I only know that because I'm privileged enough to have moved in a certain circle where I was exposed to the idea. I had enough free time and mental energy to research it on Google, and the skills to digest the publications discussing it.

I have to say I don't think it's very fair for somebody who's been lucky enough to have the time, status or skills to learn about this to round on somebody who reacts badly.

And the laugh was on them anywy becasue the asian doctor at the surgery they refused to go to was the best doctor I have ever had!

I'm white (although my heritage is mixed) and I agree that white privilege exists. Other forms of privilege also exist (such as male privilege and class privilege). Forms of privilege are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes privilege overlaps (rich, white and male) and sometimes oppression does too (poor and black) and sometimes it gets complicated because someone might dip from both categories - for example, Oprah is black, female and rich. But this does not mean that structurally (this is about structures and not individuals) white privilege does not exist. It does.

Lindalee seems to be proving a point about racism in a way she probably didn't intend. Oh well. She's gone now.

Whitening CVs evidence:

hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews (US)

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-38751307 (UK)

fullfact.org/economy/job-applicants-ethnic-minority-sounding-names-are-less-likely-be-called-interview/ (UK)

People who still don't understand, please stop posting and Google it and do some reading. I'm only on page 2 and wow talk about proving the op' point.

Oprah Winfrey one of the richest women in the world and still faces racism due to white privilege. Please read about her experiences on France and in high end shops in the USA.

The white privilege comes from being white, you know not black, which signals something wherever a black person goes before they open their mouth or before you know they are rich or educated or whatever.

A white disabled women has more privilege in this sense than a rich black man even though she a woman and disabled as she is white.

I think this from the poster that flounced is key:

and how our lives are so fucking perfect

Nobody is saying that white lives are perfect - nobody at all. That's not what the discussion about white privilege is about. But it's what people hear, and it's what makes them angry and defensive and liable to shout "whatabout all these ways in which MY life is shit, eh, eh?"

All people go through hard times. We're all human the colour of your skin means nothing. This privilege stuff is all made up crap for people who just want to be offended.

Are people on this thread really saying the term ‘ white privilege’ is unhelpful because it makes white people feel bad

I think it’s a perfect description of the experience of non whites, especially in western society.
Surely the purpose was to validate and examine that experience?

Are schemes that offer so called “affirmative action” perfect? No. Might they offer assistance to people who don’t really need it on occasion? Sure. Are they worse than accepting the fact that discrimination against BAME people is inevitable and doing bugger all about it? I don’t think so

And its not the assistance for people who don't need it that I take offence to, its the discrimination against someone who should have got the job based on their own hard work, but was passed over because they aren't BAME or disabled. (which has actually happened more than one in my workplace. I objected to it vigorously but was told, that's the way the system works)

bobstermum what a useful, evidence-based contribution to the debate.

In my area a majority of surgeons and consultants are BAME and their children are in turn generally highly educated and statistially likely to do well and go into high performing careers

Doesn't it tend to be Asian families, though? (also my experience living in London in areas with a high BAME composition) As far as I understand it, families really do push for academic achievement, which doesn't quite happen among most black families (and even so, it depends on which black culture).
So, not all BAME are the same.

And I don’t think anyone on this thread has been denying class privilege exists. It’s bloody well everywhere. But doesn’t mean white privilege doesn’t exist as well.

And its not the assistance for people who don't need it that I take offence to, its the discrimination against someone who should have got the job based on their own hard work, but was passed over because they aren't BAME or disabled. (which has actually happened more than one in my workplace. I objected to it vigorously but was told, that's the way the system works)

Fair enough if those getting in didn't work as hard, but how do you measure how hard a disabled person worked by comparison on top of their disability, for example? Or how much a BAME person had to overcome to get to the same level?

Again, as a blank scheme, it's highly likely that injustices are made. And fair enough to argue case by case.
But the schemes are made for those that start from an unjust position to start with.

Lweji

You may be right its just that personally the few black families I know in the area I currently live in are doctors and professors.

@Laughingtreeknight it happens in the NHS too.

Whereas the asian families I know come from all walks of life fromhospital consultants to teachers, retail workers, taxi drivers, manual labourers, car washers etc etc.

Hi all,
Many thanks for the reports. We have deleted the relevant posts now, if there are any more racist posts please do report them and we will remove and take a look at the the posters themselves.

Lweji without wanting to derail the thread, but I'm not interested in how hard someone works, I'm interested in how good they are at their job.

If a disabled person performs a job to 80% of the requirement, but is working really hard to do so, i am still going to promote a fully able person who can perform to 90-95% of the requirement, even if its easy for them.

Hard work is admirable but ultimately, I want the best person for the job, not the best tryer.

(This is not representative of all disabled people, just the person in my personal experience that was promoted into a 'fast track' scheme over other better performing people on the basis of her disability, then couldn't cope and had to be removed because the requirements of her new position were not compatible with her additional needs. That position was never re-offered either.)

.

I don't think its helpful express not receiving racist abuse or being seen in a particular way because of your colour as a "privilege" though.

It should be a basic thing for everyone.

I'm white but my oh is black. He opened my eyes to this especially white male privilege. Now I'm aware of it, I can really see it all around me. Its shocking.

• black people 6.5 times more likely to be stopped and searched for drugs despite black people using fewer drugs
• black people more than 1.5x more likely to be charged for possessing a class A drug than white people

No white privilege? Really?

Well that is an area an imbalance that you might argue favours white people. For example, black people make up 12% of the prison population, but 3% of the general population, this link downloads a pdf from the House of Commons Library, however reviews of things like criminal justice reveals a very mixed bag.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479990/infographic.pdf

The black community are stopped and searched far more often, arrested far more often, are actually convicted slightly less often (77% vs white at 82%), but go to prison for longer.

As such you might argue the police are slightly biased against black people, but the actual conviction rates are remarkably close (5% difference) despite the amount of searches and arrests being vastly higher: this would suggest the police are, mostly, arresting the right people. Also, non-whites are just as likely to agree that the police are "doing a good or excellent job" as whites.

The Family Resources Study suggests Indian, Chinese, and Other Asian (not including Pakistani or Bangladeshi, who are their own categories) are substantially more likely to have higher household income than Whites are, with Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and Blacks being substantially less likely, and Mixed Race being about even.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/family-resources-survey-financial-year-201516

So no "white privilege" is an Americanism that is a very blunt tool and ignores the more common issue in the Uk which is a matter of class.

Or how much a BAME person had to overcome to get to the same level

Again Lweji, even if everything you are saying is true (and you know I object to a lot of it) how is the workplace of a black person responsible for the discrimination they may or may not have experienced in their life up to that point?

Why is it the responsibility of their employer to somehow correct a perceived injustice they had nothing to do with? Especially when they are supposed to correct that injustice by simply imposing a different injustice on someone else?

We quickly degenerate into a 'sins of our fathers' type argument if we go down that road.

All people go through hard times. We're all human the colour of your skin means nothing. This privilege stuff is all made up crap for people who just want to be offended.
Try re-reading the op. Your attitude is one of non comprehension.