To think my daughter is being cruel to her dog?

[WaaaaaaaaayBetter]

Hello, my daughter has recently moved into a ground floor flat (3 months ago), they have allowed pets such as dogs and cats, which I thought was very unusual.

She did get a dog from a Facebook site that was about 2 years old I believe. He is a lovely little thing and I would definitely look after it but I'm too busy myself.

She leaves it in there all day while she is at work she does then get home and take it on a lovely walk and she is a fab owner, has to have the best of the best, etc.

I've approached her about how concerned I am that he's just left in the flat all day on his own and she says she knows it's not ideal but she isn't passing him on to get another home and she loves him too much.

She's out Monday-Friday (9-5 type job).

AIBU to think this is cruel?

My dog is male and definitely can go without the toilet for well over the length if time I'm at work. Male dogs have powers in this area we can only dream of.

YANBU.

How about seeing if she could get someone on borrow my doggy to help out, if a walker or doggy day care is too expensive? Poor dog

YABU.
Dogs sleep 14+ hours a day, depending on age and breed even up to 20(!) hours. If it's not one of the working breeds, they're perfectly happy to sleep through the time their owner is at work, especially if they get daily exercise.

You could suggest she gets another dog or a cat so they keep each other company. But they'll spend most of the time she's out sleeping anyway.

Dogs have chosen to be around humans for thousands of years with quite rudimentary care for most of the time, and definitely no flippin’ doggy daycare.

Yes, because they were AROUND humans!!!! Being left alone 5 days a week all day is such a shit life for a dog.

Our dog is left for up to 8 hours but not regularly. Most of the time only 4/5 hours at a time. But he's very happy! He sleeps in our room. Even when I'm in the house with him all day he sleeps constantly.

Dogs need around 16-18 hours of sleep a day as they rarely go into that 'deep sleep' that we do.

As long as the dog is getting 3 good walks a day and has plenty of stimulation they will be fine.

Threadstaire I work 9-4 days but on an adhoc basis. So sometimes 1 a week sometimes 3 a week and when I do our dog is on his own. I have an app on my phone that shows what he's up to and I can tell you all he does is move from his basket to the couch! He rarely drinks in the day either

@PurpleFlower1983

It’s neglectful definitely but sadly there are loads of selfish owners who work full time and leave their dogs alone all day.

Selfish? Because they need to earn money to feed and house themselves and the dogs?

@wolfie

I have a two year old and my boss is a demanding tosser. I regularly go all day without time for a piss. Im fine.

TBH it sounds ideal- a house, to myself all day, to sleep and wait for someone to come home, give me a delicious meal and tickle my tummy?

I'll swap with the dog any day

What about a situation with two dogs and a dog flap so they can go into the garden? But no human from 9 until 6? Is that cruel?

There is a great study that suggest as much as 80% of dogs left alone show signs of stress - some in obvious behaviours, some in subtle behaviours (elevated heartbeat, for e.g.), most in elevated stress hormones in their blood. Not all stress shows in obvious outward behaviours.

The vast majority of owners of these dogs failed to identify the subtle signs of stress and obviously couldn't identify the presence of cortisol & said they were fine with being left alone.

This would suggest that some dogs might be ok with being left but that the odds are greater that the dog is not and/or that the owner couldn't tell for sure either way.

Selfish? Because they need to earn money to feed and house themselves and the dogs?

Selfish because they've chosen to have a dog they can't afford to care for properly.

Pretty much all the guidelines state 4 hours alone, six absolute max (RSPCA, Dogs Trust etc). Anyone saying it's ok, based on the fact they think their dog is ok, is really just justifying the fact they do this. Their dogs have just been conditioned to being left alone for longer than recommended periods of time. I'm inclined to listen to the experts OP and your daughter needs to arrange for a dog walker during the day.

What about a situation with two dogs and a dog flap so they can go into the garden? But no human from 9 until 6? Is that cruel?

If there is another dog it’s a completely different situation - they then have one another for company!

Loads of people near where I live do this. Dog left alone 12 hours a day with access to garden, walked essentially to go to the toilet in the local park for half an hour and then back confined to the garden. Some breeds cope with this life better than others but I still think it’s lazy and very cruel.

She's what I'd call a dog OWNER, not a dog lover. Dogs are pack animals - they like to be in a pack (be that other dogs, people or animals). No dog should be left all day, and to do so is neglectful and cruel. 4 hours at the most is ok. Why can't she get a dog walker?

It is neglectful although you will get people commenting on here who work similar hours and try to justify leaving a dog for that amount of time every day.

OP.... out of interest... why are YOU too busy? Working? Other kids? Or just only SO upset about the cruelty - enough to post on MN, but not enough to do anything to resolve the situation?

It is strange MN phenomenon that all dogs must never be left longer than 3 hours without company. In the real world, millions of dogs are left at home while their owners work, because most people work full time and that is the way it goes. For all those who say that you have get dog walkers - in many places, dog walkers do not exist. People´s life circumstances change and suddenly dog owners have to work longer days. If your DD´s dog seems to be happy and well-cared for then the dog probably is happy and well-cared for. If I were her, I´d tell you to get your nose out of my business with your "cruel" comments.

Honestly, I'm gobsmacked so many people leave their dogs alone all day. I know there's some exceptions (greyhounds, certain large breeds etc) that need a lot of rest. But are that many people really deluded that their particular dog needs 16hrs or more sleep a day?

I'm not doubting that people need to work, but if you're out of work you pay a dog walker, same way as you'd pay a child minder. You take responsibility for a life you remain responsible when you're at work, the dog doesn't cease to exist for 10hrs just because you're not there.

@sonja

it must be that same parallel MN universe where fruit sugar is equitable to crystal meth...

The one reason I don't have a dog is because I am out the house for 4 days a week and can't afford dog daycare. She needs to pay for that, or failing that a dog walker.

I thought most dog owners were unemployed

I think it's cruel. Dogs are pack animals. They haven't evolved to be on their own for hours.

I'd really love to have a dog, but work full time as does my dp. I've resigned myself to the fact that the only way I could have a dog is if I win the lottery and give up work.

@tildaMa

No, selfish because they have chosen to take on a pet that is not appropriate for them and their lifestyle. It’s a bit different if someone has taken on a 10 year old from a rescue but the amount of idiots who leave the latest fashionable dog at home all day really annoys me.

It often leads to behavioural problems which is why so many dogs end up in rescues.

I’ve no doubt there are many loving owners out there who end up having to leave their dogs whilst at work but I don’t think people should be taking dogs on knowing this is the situation.

It's not fair on the dogs. Sad to know that some owners do this to theirs. Don't have a dog if you're gonna be out all day and the dog is getting no interaction with humans for that length of time. The poor dog spends most of its life staring at 4 walls. It's selfish IMO